Polkadot tie?

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Pat Holscher
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:13 pm

"7th Regiment"?
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:16 pm

Same officer, note the holster and spurs.
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:18 pm

"71st NY"
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Brian P.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:45 am

Pat Holscher wrote:Same officer, note the holster and spurs.
The holster may be the most up to date part of this officer's uniform - M1912 holster. Those appear to be M1888 officers' spurs. He is also wearing the early version of the 1904 o.d. shirt. I'm assuming that these pics date from the NG mobilization associated with the "Mexican Crisis" and The Punitive Expedition.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:45 am

I LIKE the tie. This Colonel's got swag!
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Pat Holscher
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:18 pm

Brian P. wrote:I LIKE the tie. This Colonel's got swag!
I wonder what this would have looked like in color?
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Brian P.
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Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:34 am

Actually, if you look closely at the tie, it appears to be textured. I wonder if it is a knit tie.
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rayarthart
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Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:52 am

Patton must have seen this Col. and thought If this Col. can get away with uniform in fractions So can I.

Also wonder if the cop is taking care of business or having a good conversation with the Col. Seems the cop is getting ready for a ticket writing.
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Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:41 am

rayarthart wrote:Patton must have seen this Col. and thought If this Col. can get away with uniform in fractions So can I.

Also wonder if the cop is taking care of business or having a good conversation with the Col. Seems the cop is getting ready for a ticket writing.
Patton actually departed from the uniform standards very little, although its widely believed that he did. In actuality, he was a stickler for the proper uniform in most things, although he had a few small departures.

Part of the reason that people tend to believe he departed from the uniform is actually because he stuck to it so much, so we see him comparatively well dressed in the field, which looks really odd. That standard was the official one, but it just doesn't fit very well with modern combat. He tried to get his troops to do that as well, which they did not like (particularly the wearing of ties) and largely ignored.

Another reason we believe that is that the standards for officers at the time incorporated a degree of individuality which we don't see now. So they had uniform choices, and a wide variety of uniforms to pick from. So, when we see Patton wearing a B-3 flight jacket, that actually was not uncommon at all and allowable under the standards of the time. It's pretty easy to find other officers doing the same (MacArthur liked the A-2), but we just end not to think of it.

Amongst U.S. officer, the one who really departed from standard was MacArthur, which he did as early as World War One. During WWII he wore the scrambled egg hat, which was from the Philippine Army but not official for the US Army. He also went with pleated trousers, which weren't official. And he liked to omit rank insignia. During WWI he liked to go to the front with a peaked cap with the stiffener taken out, and sans helmet, and wear a heavy sweater. Really odd for a time when Pershing didn't allow for uniform departures at all. And I've seen a photo of MacArthur wearing a full length, heavy fur coat, in this era.

British officers departed enormously from the official uniform in during WWII. High ranking officers seem to have often omitted uniforms entirely except for caps.
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Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:41 am

rayarthart wrote:Also wonder if the cop is taking care of business or having a good conversation with the Col. Seems the cop is getting ready for a ticket writing.
Good question. The Colonel does appear to have the look of somebody who feels he's tolerating more than he should have to.
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mmoore
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Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:34 am

http://www.schistory.net/campwadsworth/unitsnon.html

NON-DIVISIONAL TROOPS CHART

The following troops were organized or stationed at Camp Wadsworth, but were not a part of any division. They were sent overseas and attached to whichever American Army or Corps most needed them.

54th Pioneer Infantry: Formerly 71st New York Infantry. Composed of 18 officers and 183 enlisted men after reorganization. Commanded by Colonel W. G. Bates and filled to wartime strength with draftees. The regiment left Camp Wadsworth on August 20th with 3551 officers and men.

http://www.schistory.net/campwadsworth/

There is a picture of the 54th Pioneer Infantry here:

http://www.schistory.net/campwadsworth/ ... longs.html

with what would appear to be some officers on the left end but I wasn’t able to pick out COL Bates, perhaps he had lost some weight. He served his country.
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Pat Holscher
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Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:35 pm

Telegram from W. G. Bates to Theodore Roosevelt, from 1901:

http://trcimages.dataformat.com/images/ ... 0/0271.jpg
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Pat Holscher
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Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:05 pm

Bates apparently rose up the brevetted rank of General during WWI, during which time he still commanded the 71st New York.

https://archive.org/details/seventyfirstnewy00sutl
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