Rhodesian McClellans and the Greys Scouts

[Tom Muller]

Hi Roy, Joe,

well I'm going to order one for sure! I guess I'll get right what we did wrong!

Tom

[Joseph Sullivan]

Friends:

WARNING -- ROY DO NOT READ THIS

Roy is a living treasure. He is one of the last --perhaps the last -- military horsemaster now alive. By this I do not mean military horsemen or mounted officers. there are quite a few of them around. However, there are very few indeed who have trained troops and horses and mastered field conditions while at the same time mastering and training higher level competitive horsemanship.

[Joseph Sullivan]

OK ROY -- YOU CAN READ THIS ONE

A common problem for people today is to figure out what to do about feeding and grazing horses while en-route somewhere. If they will be out for several hours, both they and the animals will need rest and food at some point. I myself just pack a little grain. A lunch time, we stop, un-tack, the animal eats the grain and then grazes in a halter on a lead line that stays in my control (usually under my hip as I sit on the ground). It works, but it might not be the best approach, and for your purposes in Africa, it might not have worked. How did you handle such things, and what was the timing of full rest and food stops under normal conditions?

[Pat Holscher]

OK ROY -- YOU CAN READ THIS ONE

A common problem for people today is to figure out what to do about feeding and grazing horses while en-route somewhere. If they will be out for several hours, both they and the animals will need rest and food at some point. I myself just pack a little grain. A lunch time, we stop, un-tack, the animal eats the grain and then grazes in a halter on a lead line that stays in my control (usually under my hip as I sit on the ground). It works, but it might not be the best approach, and for your purposes in Africa, it might not have worked. How did you handle such things, and what was the timing of full rest and food stops under normal conditions?

I'll also look forward to Roy's answer.

My experience on a long series of rides is this. We will give the horses some grain at the start of the day (which serves two purposes, it also helps draw them in to where we want to saddle them). Usually, the riding commences very early, say at day break, and continues until about late morning, maybe up until noon. We then stop and break for a noon meal. The horses are hobbled and set loose where they can graze, with loosened saddles if we anticipate riding again relatively soon thereafter. If not, they're unsaddled and hobbled.

Late in the day, they're saddled again (assuming we didn't start up again earlier), and work again until late day. So, we'd be starting up again at about 3:00, or perhaps as late as 5:00, and riding until near dark. This ride is usually shorter. They are then done for the day, given a little grain, and unsaddled. They're once again hobbled, usually.

Left out of the picture is water, a scarce resource here. When trailing, all the stopping points are watered. There's no way to really hold cattle easily if there's no water, so the length of a stage of a trail is usually determined by water. Still, horses are allowed to drink any place there's good water. Water quality varies, however, out in the sticks and individual horses react differently to it. Cattle will drink really foul water which horses will not. Of course, cattle will stand and drink in water they're also peeing in, so apparently their taste in regards to water is rather relaxed. Horses, on the other hand, seem to be much more particular about water. Some just don't care for water that has a certain smell to it, and will seem to avoid it no matter how thirsty them may be. Anyhow, most experienced riders are very careful not to allow horses to graze while the rider is mounted and working, when he pauses, but are very careful to allow horses to drink whenever the opportunity presents itself.

FWIW, novices are often quite spooked by horses drinking while they're mounted, I've noticed. I'll confess that I don't like crossing streams much, and have never really completely gotten used to it.

[Pat Holscher]

FWIW, novices are often quite spooked by horses drinking while they're mounted, I've noticed.

Also, fwiw, perhaps making this fear rational, I have occasionally seen green horses, on really hot days, forget they had a rider if they were really thirsty. For example, I've seen one that was in a pond decide to sink into it, almost like a submarine. Not good. And I myself have experienced a situation in which a thirsty horse, on a really cold day, suddenly decided he needed to roll. He literally seemed to forget what he was doing.

[Pat Holscher]

OK ROY -- YOU CAN READ THIS ONE

A common problem for people today is to figure out what to do about feeding and grazing horses while en-route somewhere. If they will be out for several hours, both they and the animals will need rest and food at some point. I myself just pack a little grain. A lunch time, we stop, un-tack, the animal eats the grain and then grazes in a halter on a lead line that stays in my control (usually under my hip as I sit on the ground). It works, but it might not be the best approach, and for your purposes in Africa, it might not have worked. How did you handle such things, and what was the timing of full rest and food stops under normal conditions?

I'll also look forward to Roy's answer.

My experience on a long series of rides is this. We will give the horses some grain at the start of the day (which serves two purposes, it also helps draw them in to where we want to saddle them). Usually, the riding commences very early, say at day break, and continues until about late morning, maybe up until noon. We then stop and break for a noon meal. The horses are hobbled and set loose where they can graze, with loosened saddles if we anticipate riding again relatively soon thereafter. If not, they're unsaddled and hobbled.

Late in the day, they're saddled again (assuming we didn't start up again earlier), and work again until late day. So, we'd be starting up again at about 3:00, or perhaps as late as 5:00, and riding until near dark. This ride is usually shorter. They are then done for the day, given a little grain, and unsaddled. They're once again hobbled, usually.

Left out of the picture is water, a scarce resource here. When trailing, all the stopping points are watered. There's no way to really hold cattle easily if there's no water, so the length of a stage of a trail is usually determined by water. Still, horses are allowed to drink any place there's good water. Water quality varies, however, out in the sticks and individual horses react differently to it. Cattle will drink really foul water which horses will not. Of course, cattle will stand and drink in water they're also peeing in, so apparently their taste in regards to water is rather relaxed. Horses, on the other hand, seem to be much more particular about water. Some just don't care for water that has a certain smell to it, and will seem to avoid it no matter how thirsty them may be. Anyhow, most experienced riders are very careful not to allow horses to graze while the rider is mounted and working, when he pauses, but are very careful to allow horses to drink whenever the opportunity presents itself.

FWIW, novices are often quite spooked by horses drinking while they're mounted, I've noticed. I'll confess that I don't like crossing streams much, and have never really completely gotten used to it.

As a final added part of this, one thing I'd note is that even though I've experienced some fairly long modern cattle drives lasting longer than a week, in modern terms, they're all vehicle supported. That is, in modern trailing, there's always a few trucks along that can carry supplies, and usually a camp trailer too. One of the things that's always packed along is a 55 gallon drum of grain.

I note this for a variety of reasons. One is that even though the thought of Horse Mechanized cavalry never really panned out, Horse Mechanized ranching sure has, and in ways which some of those hold horse mech troopers would recognize. The big horse trailer pulled by a prime mover is pretty common. But also note note that, even though we know how we could do the same thing without the truck, having the truck along to haul some things sure makes it easier. A 55 gallon drum of grain on a flatbed truck is a far cry from ever trooper packing some grain.

[Joseph Sullivan]

Makes good sense in open country where they can be left to graze or hobble.

However, these days long rides for many people involve marked trails and also roadsides where a bit too much wandering can result in a crisis. In Roy's case, too, I would imagine that they needed a system that would keep the animals under control.

I, too, have been on horses who decided to swim or slosh around in the water. It is not much fun. However, the worst thing I ever saw was a on a little horse riding through a new suburban development near a stable where I worked in Plano, Texas about 37 years ago or so. The rider had little control at best. We came up to a freshly poured cul-de-sac in a brand new subdivision. This guy's horse plowed into the concrete, really messing it up, and then rolled, saddle and all, while the rider jumped for his life. It was a real, world-class mess.

[roy elderkin]

Pat Joe
can I answer your question that you are not under war like condition's as this requires a differant set of rules. But some of the things that you can do are related, first and formost plan your rout, understand that watering points are fundimental to your travel. On average a horse will require from 5 to 15 gallons of water per day, this is dependant on temperature , a horse requires this large intake of water because of its intestinal function, to obsorb food intake.
In hot weather start early, this will allow you to cover the most distance before the midday sun reaches its highest point, if time is not a factor take your time, the harder you push the horse the greater the number of watering stops you will have to make. Water when ever possible,, the water should be fresh and clear, free from smell or colour. On average water at least three times a day,the horses bowels are adapted to take in large quantities of water at comparatively infrequent intervals.
Stops work on a method which suits you and your horse, but at least one stop should be the longest this is best taken at midday. Shorter stops are usualy in burst of two to three hours riding time, allow about five or ten minutes of grazing, this gives you time to check round the horse, and check saddlery, then allow another ten minutes to walk along side your horse this allows you to stretch your legs, and ease the weight on your horses back. These are are not hard and fast rules, you the rider should know your horse and its capabilities. Your main stop should be the time to take of saddlery, if you had studied your rout this should allow you to water the horse before feeding. I prefer to tie horses up on these stops, we would then give the horse a handfull of cubes in a canvas bucket, that way there is no wastage or spillage. Whilst he is eating cut up veld hay or grass, allow him to put his head down and eat, then and only then do you see to your self, make sure that the stop is at least 45 minutes to an hour in duration. Before saddleing up knock the horses back down with either a brush or grass, this circulates and stimulates the horses back, ensure the hair is flat saddle up and continue on your way. One final word if you live in Africa and out where there is game, and cats, if you plan to stop over night make a boma, that is an enclosure made up of thorn bushes, it not only protects the horse but acts as a stable for both of you.
In the police I used to carry a picket pin, this was pushed into the ground and the halter rope tied to the ring, I would use this if there was no safe way of securing the horse, horses get used to it and feel as if they are being held, they dont move. But always seek shade not only for the horse but yourself, they cool down quicker, if ridden hard or in heat.

Roy

[Pat Holscher]

Pat Joe
can I answer your question that you are not under war like condition's as this requires a differant set of rules.

Indeed, not only is your observation true, but so much so, we can hardly imagine the conditions it must entail. The shear unknown of it all, what will happen in a day, where you'll end up, and all, are likely almost unimaginable to those who haven't experienced. It must really take horsemanship to a whole other level.

I recently posted some photos of the Australian NAOU unit, which patrolled in Northern Australia at the start of WWII. I have a book on the unit, which Sam Cox gracefully lined up for me. One of the things the very interesting book discusses is the vast problems members of the unit had with horse wasting, even in a fairly well watered country, and even where the horsemen were very experienced. Simply scouting for forage was a significant part of the troopers duties. The conditions the Greys faced were likely very similiar, and it's with combat added on top it. It is hard to imagine what it must have been like.

[selewis]

Good luck Roy and thanks for your effort and that of those who are helping you bring the project to fruition. It will be a valuable addition to the literature. To my knowledge there is almost nothing in the popular press written specifically, or touching on the subject of keeping a horse going in the field without support. My small collection of books is the product of looking for insights into those questions- and I'm still looking- not that I expect to ever find the grail: a definitive text on a subject that has so many variable and intangible aspects to it. Heck, even with a machine as regular and quantifiable as an automobile 'your mileage may vary'.

More than once in casual conversation I've been asked, 'How far can a horse go in a day?' I'm sure that my response is never satisfactory: I honestly don't know, and even if I did, it all depends. (So many questions in horsemanship end with 'it all depends'.) What horse? What is his condition? When? Where? under what conditions? and for how long? will he have to be ridden again tomorrow? how pressing is the need? how much do you love your horse and what risk are you willing to put him to? and not least: who will be riding him? etc. ad infinitum. In a recent instance- she was very pretty- I prefaced my response with, 'Good question! What are you doing the rest of your life?'


Every few months I run a search to see if any of the papers of your fellow countryman Sir Frederick Smith (RCVS) have been digitized and made available on-line. Not yet, that I can find, but I gather from offhand references that he was quite influential in improving horsemastership after the Boer war. Surely, therein lies a motherlode. Hope springs eternal.

Sandy

[Trooper]

Good luck with the book Roy.

[roy elderkin]

Sandy

If there was ever a phrase in the English Language that answer's many things, is "It all depends", this is so true of horsemanship. Keep on searching for that "Graill", the closer you think that you are, it dawns on you that you are not and "it all depends". Like the preverbial piece of string how long is it.

Roy

[Tom Muller]

Hi Roy,

we were talking about all sorts of things, but what came to my mind was one thing: when coming back from partol or ops, what was the daily routine for man and trooper like? Were there any medical checks done on the horses, who looked after the tack, who cared for the horses (when the men were on leave for example), rest periods and training periods all sorts of things. I guess that would be a interesting point to talk about.

Tom

[roy elderkin]

Tom
I will deal with the ops side that is base camps in answer to your questions. To start with because of the increase in size of the Regt, we had to revamp the Sqn's to make full use of our manpower problems. So we instituted the use of stable managers, who were to be responsible for care of horses, that is in base camps. They were to have 10 civillian staff, vets, farriers, saddlers etc. The rest would come under the Sqn HQ section, they would be responsible for setting up and in advance of the Sqn, paddocks, water, hay and feed storage, and the sighting of middens to control flys and midges. They were eqipped with a large marquee for the storage of feed and hay, a 1000gallon collapsable plastic tank, which would be used as water troughs. The Sqn would if possible set up base camps in abandoned farms, using if still standing existing buildings and paddocks. More often than not there was still water supplies on them, if not they had to bowzer it in.
They would be responsible for re suppling horses and men in the field, replaceing horses in the field and base camps if required. When a patrol came in from patrols they would with vets and farriers, check over horses, and ensure they were still fit for duty, saddlers would check over equipment and make or mend if required. This enabled soldiers to have adequate rest periods, between patrols, and reduced the number of soldiers required to run the camps[more boots on ground]. They were an intregal part of the Sqn, and were very knowledgable and trained in the art of caring for horses in the field. All Sqn's had them as well as in the depot.
When horses came into Depot from deployment, they were paddocked and left to rest and graze, this was done after a full inspection of all horses by the vets. Samples of blood would be taken at random, and checked for parrasites etc, they were given a full de worming program, and a selection of horses were given a TPR monitor, this checked the level of fittness, so any changes in horses feed could be made. It would also indicate if horses were standing up to the rigours of deployment, and if changes were required in diet or the horse was not upto it and replaced.

Roy

[Pat Holscher]

Hi Roy,

we were talking about all sorts of things, but what came to my mind was one thing: when coming back from partol or ops, what was the daily routine for man and trooper like? Were there any medical checks done on the horses, who looked after the tack, who cared for the horses (when the men were on leave for example), rest periods and training periods all sorts of things. I guess that would be a interesting point to talk about.

Tom

Tom, what were the practices of your unit in regards to this sort of thing?

[Pat Holscher]

Tom
I will deal with the ops side that is base camps in answer to your questions. To start with because of the increase in size of the Regt, we had to revamp the Sqn's to make full use of our manpower problems. So we instituted the use of stable managers, who were to be responsible for care of horses, that is in base camps. They were to have 10 civillian staff, vets, farriers, saddlers etc. The rest would come under the Sqn HQ section, they would be responsible for setting up and in advance of the Sqn, paddocks, water, hay and feed storage, and the sighting of middens to control flys and midges. They were eqipped with a large marquee for the storage of feed and hay, a 1000gallon collapsable plastic tank, which would be used as water troughs. The Sqn would if possible set up base camps in abandoned farms, using if still standing existing buildings and paddocks. More often than not there was still water supplies on them, if not they had to bowzer it in.
They would be responsible for re suppling horses and men in the field, replaceing horses in the field and base camps if required. When a patrol came in from patrols they would with vets and farriers, check over horses, and ensure they were still fit for duty, saddlers would check over equipment and make or mend if required. This enabled soldiers to have adequate rest periods, between patrols, and reduced the number of soldiers required to run the camps[more boots on ground]. They were an intregal part of the Sqn, and were very knowledgable and trained in the art of caring for horses in the field. All Sqn's had them as well as in the depot.
When horses came into Depot from deployment, they were paddocked and left to rest and graze, this was done after a full inspection of all horses by the vets. Samples of blood would be taken at random, and checked for parrasites etc, they were given a full de worming program, and a selection of horses were given a TPR monitor, this checked the level of fittness, so any changes in horses feed could be made. It would also indicate if horses were standing up to the rigours of deployment, and if changes were required in diet or the horse was not upto it and replaced.

Roy

Very interesting. It sounds like you incorporated the use of contractors in this aspect of your operations, which was likely more efficient, or certainly more economic, than incorporating all of these folks into the service itself, particularly given the size of the unit and its unique purpose. Was there a mix of service (army) personnel, or where they all civilians?

[roy elderkin]

Pat
The ten civillians were under the control of a senior NCO, all other ancillary staff were regular soldiers, but came under his control, when setting base camps.

Roy

[Pat Holscher]

Pat
The ten civillians were under the control of a senior NCO, all other ancillary staff were regular soldiers, but came under his control, when setting base camps.

Roy

Were the veterinarians civilians?

[roy elderkin]

Pat
They were commissioned officers in the TA, and came in on their normal call ups.

Roy

[Tom Muller]

Tom
I will deal with the ops side that is base camps in answer to your questions. To start with because of the increase in size of the Regt, we had to revamp the Sqn's to make full use of our manpower problems. So we instituted the use of stable managers, who were to be responsible for care of horses, that is in base camps. They were to have 10 civillian staff, vets, farriers, saddlers etc. The rest would come under the Sqn HQ section, they would be responsible for setting up and in advance of the Sqn, paddocks, water, hay and feed storage, and the sighting of middens to control flys and midges. They were eqipped with a large marquee for the storage of feed and hay, a 1000gallon collapsable plastic tank, which would be used as water troughs. The Sqn would if possible set up base camps in abandoned farms, using if still standing existing buildings and paddocks. More often than not there was still water supplies on them, if not they had to bowzer it in.
They would be responsible for re suppling horses and men in the field, replaceing horses in the field and base camps if required. When a patrol came in from patrols they would with vets and farriers, check over horses, and ensure they were still fit for duty, saddlers would check over equipment and make or mend if required. This enabled soldiers to have adequate rest periods, between patrols, and reduced the number of soldiers required to run the camps[more boots on ground]. They were an intregal part of the Sqn, and were very knowledgable and trained in the art of caring for horses in the field. All Sqn's had them as well as in the depot.
When horses came into Depot from deployment, they were paddocked and left to rest and graze, this was done after a full inspection of all horses by the vets. Samples of blood would be taken at random, and checked for parrasites etc, they were given a full de worming program, and a selection of horses were given a TPR monitor, this checked the level of fittness, so any changes in horses feed could be made. It would also indicate if horses were standing up to the rigours of deployment, and if changes were required in diet or the horse was not upto it and replaced.

Roy

Roy,

thanks for answering my questions! Sorry for the delayed answer, I was out a couple of days.
As we never shod our horses I have no operational experience with shoeing, but how often did the horses have to be shod in average (of course depending on the terrain) and were there any differences between the rainy season and the dry season? I was one of the blokes who had to trim the hooves of most horses I had a lot of work to do during the rainy season, as the hooves grew faster, I presume because of better feed/grazing.

Tom

Tom