1911 Service Sweater

[Camp Little]

In a previous wish list post, someone mentioned they would like to see the 1911 Service Sweater being reproduced. I brought this up to Alan Crane of AEF Supply and he mentioned to me that he has not been able to find one to copy, but based on the pictures in Machado's The Last Campaign he was having one made up as a trial. If anyone out there can help Alan with finding an original to copy or supply him with detailed pictures or specs or even put him in contact with William Machado, please do so. You can contact Alan at: service@aefsupply.com

Let's support him in getting this project up and running.

Regards,
Steve

[Pat Holscher]

What model of sweater is this?


<font size="1">Photograph courtesy of the Denver Public Library, Western Heritage Collection.</font id="size1">

Pat

[Camp Little]

LOL, that guy looks way too happy cleaning that rifle, maybe he's been nipping from the old rifle cleaner can My guess is that's it's a 1911 due to the spacing between buttons. The 1911 was a 3 button sweater with a high collar. You can't see the pockets which would be a dead giveaway. Great picture!

[Pat Holscher]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Camp Little</i>
<br />In a previous wish list post, someone mentioned they would like to see the 1911 Service Sweater being reproduced. I brought this up to Alan Crane of AEF Supply and he mentioned to me that he has not been able to find one to copy, but based on the pictures in Machado's The Last Campaign he was having one made up as a trial. If anyone out there can help Alan with finding an original to copy or supply him with detailed pictures or specs or even put him in contact with William Machado, please do so. You can contact Alan at: service@aefsupply.com

Let's support him in getting this project up and running.

Regards,
Steve
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Say, if you are able to suggest things to Mr. Crane (and aren't responsible for the low sales our suggestions would probably result in), it'd be nice if they'd put their WWI era breeches out in the mounted pattern as well. I'm sure the market for such a thing would be low, but nice wool ones would be nice.

Pat

[Camp Little]

Well Pat, I'd say everyone in this forum is as able as I am to make suggestions to Mr. Crane, that's why I posted his e-mail. I entered into a dialog with him simply by being a consumer (a couple of sets of metal buttons, a folding tent pole, a packtail strap, etc.) and mentioned that since he is very active in repro gear, a 1911 Sweater would be nice. He was kind enough to actually reply to my comments and I'm sure he would reply in kind to anyone on this forum that would choose to contact him using the above link. It's one thing to muse amongst ourselves about what would be nice to have available, it's another to go outside the box and contact a producer and establish the concept of some demand for certain products in the marketplace. I'd invite everyone to sound off en masse as to their own wants and something oughtta happen. I know I'll mention it the next time I order something from him. Making wool cavalry breeches should be a snap, especially if someone out there could supply him with a pair for evaluation.
Regards,
Steve

[Ron Smith]

Chris,
Are yo sure about your information. The pattern used by Infantry troops was a straighter leg, i.e. less flair, than was issued to mounted troops and officers. I have a pair (mtd) in front of me now. There are many pattern variants at Ft. Sill which clearly define foot from mounted.

Is there a reg. stating that?

Regards,
Ron Smith

[Tom Smith Φ]

I have bought most of my punitive era clothing threw Allen . the work is excellant to my taste ,however I orderd my OD fieldshirt when I did all the other items ,breeches , overcoat , raincoat , etc. and that was 3 yrs ago christmas time and have sent numerios emails (the first were answered telling me the shirts would come soon ) the last e-mails over past yr were not answered . I need that shirt but have been told by a few other people Ive met that the work is good but they have waited for over a yr for items as well . im not bad mouthing the guy the work is great ,I just am bit erked because I wanted that shirt and 3 yrs is pushing my limit .(no it wasnt paid for till it would be sent so I have no money in limbo but I did and still do need the shirt ! )

[HawkHero]

Tom;

There are a few other vendors out there who have been better about clothing than Allen has been. Schipperfabrik and What Price Glory both offer nice pull-over shirts. Great War Militaria is the priciest but theirs has the nicest material I have seen.

--Brian

[Oskar_2ndChev]

I believe that Jerry Lee of What Price Glory has plans to reproduce the 1911 Service Sweater.

AEF still owes me a set of the 1912 cotton breeches and tunic and one 1916 shirt. Schipper and WPG are a lot easier to deal with and more responsive to consumer input.

[Kurt Hughes]

Let us hope that whichever company reproduces uniform items they mark it as such, although sadly a sewn in label is easily removed from a sweater.

[HawkHero]

Schipper stamps all of their stuff with TT&A (Talbert Tent and Awning) so anyone who does a little research will come up with that info as a company which never existed. WPG always marks and stamps their items WPG. I forsee fakes as being an issue for early 20th century items for the next 50-75 years. By then it will move on to Vietnam through Iraqi freedom items.

Sadly, there will always be fakes out there and it will be up to consumers and collectors to know the differences because it is very rare for a repro to equal an original for quality and craftsmanship.

At The Front has a very informative page on basics for telling fakes from the real deal. The guy who runs the company is a bit sour and abrasive, but that page is very well done as a crash-course.

--Brian

[Kurt Hughes]

I think there is certainly a healthy market for reproduction items from this period which I am not against, but what does concern me are modern items that are not clearly marked as a copy.
The fact there will always be fakes out there does not mean we should contribute to the fact or at least not help battle fakes by perhaps marking things as copies, perhaps a large ink stamp on the inside of a belt or uniform, I know people will say that would be easily removed but I do not believe so, not without leaving some kind of trace. I acknowledge these companies are not making items to be sold as originals, but by making the item they have solved most of the problem for the potential faker.

My concern is what affect they may have on future collectors, many years ago we could buy most WW1 or Border period items without a thought of it being a copy (perhaps only the high end items) but now even with the simplest common items being copied the new young collector is expected to be an instant expert, most of us here would have bought the odd item first which ignited an interest and may have started a collection with that comes research and books etc, but if the easiest most common item cannot be bought without first purchasing a book on the subject it may deter the young collector from ever starting.
Collectors like reenactors and living historians are all important, collectors spend much time researching and some even writing books that may eventually be used by reenactors to help with their costume.
I agree a collector should know his subject therefore research is vital, but why should we make it any harder for the future collector by simply not marking copy items in a clear way, not just some small fake initials. I just cannot understand why we should make it harder for future generations for the sake of an ink stamp, does an ink stamp on the inside of a uniform make a reenactor feel any less original.

We must remember some of the simplest items we take for granted now may be quite scarce in a few years making it harder for the potential collector to even see an original for comparison, therefore he is relying on a photo in a book or on the internet. Copies by their nature have to be good in order to sell and are therefore getting better, for that reason a copy belt for example may look identical to an original in a reference book.

Surely we should all be encouraging future generations with an interest in history whether it be through collectors, museums, reenactors or living historians, in my opinion copy items should clearly be marked as such and of course hand in hand collectors should learn there subject, what is wrong with doing both?

Lastly I do not have a solution for marking a woollen sweater and that is a concern as I have seen original examples that look like they were only made yesterday.

Here ends my rant for the day.
Kurt.

[Todd]

I've always thought any woven repro item should contain a certain number of synthetic fibers, preferably UV-reactive. A simple light test would then show them and prove later manufacture. Tough to pick individual threads out of every yarn strand too!

Marking in the same style only leads to the inevitable questions about "Was F. Burgess & Co./Mast Harness a civil war equipment contractor?" (usually asked by someone before they attempt to peddle the item on eBay).

[Kurt Hughes]

Todd,
Good point about the fibres, problem solved.
Kurt.

[Tom Smith Φ]

Gentelmen, I just recieved my first purchase from WPG (1916 field shirt ) OUTSTANDING !! I look forward to the sweaters when they start production .

[Pat Holscher]

Interesting sweater thread on the forum Ray linked in.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... opic=39625

[Sam Cox]

Did anyone get a PG 1911 sweater?

Thanks

Sam

[Oskar_2ndChev]

I have- it's an excellent product and definately warm.

[Tom Smith Φ]

I got mine a few months ago and I find it to be top of the line my hats of to jerry at WPG
now if I can just find some one to make the dust goggles to put my persciption lens`s in any thoughts anyone ?

[Pat Holscher]

Bump.