Rhodesian McClellans and the Greys Scouts

[roy elderkin]

Pat.I would firstly like to thank you for your comments. It is difficult to know where to begin, it would be in some cases easier to reply to topics in an area of interest .But the real interest lay in the formation of a new Regt throwing away outmoded concepts and introducing more modern concepts to fit modern warfare. So many of the equipments were derivatives of old ones but fitted and tested under field conditions to suite our needs. One of these being feed for horses in the old days horses were overloaded, we wanted to produce a ration for horses which were not only light in weight but easy to carry. It therefore fell upon the CO myself a vet and a nutrition expert from the animal husbandry dept of a livestock feed company the result was an ingenious cube every thing the horse needed ration wise was contain in that cube. In fact the company concerned marketed the cube under the heading MIU cube from the Regts enitials, and was bought by a number of race horse trainers because of its nutritional factor.It then led us into production of saddle bags made from canvas which lay across the rear of the saddle this contained the horse cubes and light eight equipment. I will close now and send a picture in my next post to illustrate the saddle and bags.

[Pat Holscher]

I thought I'd note some of the other treads that are related to this topic:

An active thread on Rhodesian McClellans:
topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3210

An archived thread on Rhodesian mounted units.
topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2224

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Roy, thanks for replying. I've bumped up a couple of related pending threads in this area as well.

Originally posted by roy elderkin
<br />But the real interest lay in the formation of a new Regt throwing away outmoded concepts and introducing more modern concepts to fit modern warfare. So many of the equipments were derivatives of old ones but fitted and tested under field conditions to suite our needs. One of these being feed for horses in the old days horses were overloaded, we wanted to produce a ration for horses which were not only light in weight but easy to carry. It therefore fell upon the CO myself a vet and a nutrition expert from the animal husbandry dept of a livestock feed company the result was an ingenious cube every thing the horse needed ration wise was containd in that cube. Infact the company concerned marketed the cube under the heading MIU cube from the Regts enitials, and was bought by a number of race horse trainers becaus of its nutritional factor.

Very interesting. This is an aspect of horse use in the military that is rarely addressed except in well researched complete texts, but in fact was always a problem for cavalry units in the field. It's interesting to note this problem being addressed in this fashion.

Is the ration still marketed, under any name?

It then leds us into production of saddle bags made from canvas which lay across the rear of the saddle this cotained the horse cubes and light eight euipment. I will close now and send a picture in my next post to illastrate the saddle and bags.

I'll very much look forward to the photo.

Interesting to note the canvas saddle bags as well. The US Army did some experimentation with canvas saddle bags in the late 1800s, and here we see it being reconsidered nearly a century later.

It strikes me that these McClellan saddles are undoubtedly the last McClellans ever made, or very likely are, for actual field use. Interesting to see how this came about.

Pat

[roy elderkin]

I have tried to send you the picture that I have though it does not show you the whole saddle. My wife has written an intersting book the Title The Last Rhodesian Soldiers in it she has encluded a chapter I wrote years ago about the Greys and my involvement with them. The book is published by Publish America and is available on Amazon and a number of book web sites.

[Jesse]

Gentlemen,
Would you impart the construction of the horseshoe discussed? Were the other equipments carried in pommel pockets?
J

[roy elderkin]

Pat in reply to your question regarding the MIU cube this is no longer produced in Zimbabwe

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by roy elderkin
<br />Pat in reply to your question regarding the MIU cube this is no longer produced in Zimbabwe

Thanks Roy. I wonder if the basic recipe has been picked up elsewhere?

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Roy,

As a followup, I wonder if you could let us know what other tack, besides the McClellan saddle, and what other gear, your men used.

For example, we have some photographs up here of Portugese dragoons in Angola in the 1970s. These photos exhibit a variety of locations for the rifle scabbard (bucket) used for the G3. What was done for the FAL? The Portugese dragoons apparently were issued the G3 and the Walther P-38. Were you men likewise issued battle rifle and pistol? Were they issued specialized riding gear, such as riding boots, or were they simply issed the basic uniform?

How long was the course of training?

Pat

[george seal]

I might be wrong but I undestand the original Rodesian Mounted Infantry Unit was not issued pistols, probably to stop them from acting as dragoons (as the case of the troops in Angola). They were to be excusively employed as mounted trackers to detect insurgents and direct stronger forces against them. Apparently, the mounted soldiers decided they whanted a bigger piece of the action and took to actually fight on horseback. This should not be surprising as Rodesian troops were famous for running after the terrorists on foot and horses are much faster than running men.

[roy elderkin]

george
In answer to your question regarding the issue of pistols to the MIU. All soldiers were issued with pistols from the outset of the MIUs formation,and they were not used excusively to track this being a small part of the role of MIU. It was raised to patrol areas where JOC [ Joint Opperations Command] wanted us to be, most notably the Mukambura fence. This fence line was untraversable by vehicle during the rainy season, we were deployed there during one of these bad seasons with a great deal of success as there were no border crossings by insurgents in fact we were able to pick up a few and handed them over to JOC for intel. It was found that from intel that if Grey's was deployed into areas of interest then insurgents moved out we used this to our advantage, deploying stop groups around the area and waited for them to come out. On the raids into Mozambique Greys played a part by carry in morters and bombs on pack saddles which the writer adapted for this purpose.

roy elderkin.

[roy elderkin]

pat

Before I try to answer your questions did you receive the Grey's scroll I sent and some pages of Grey's history. Apart from the saddle outlined earlier Grey's opperated initialy on a shoe string budget. Many of the items we used were on site later when we proved our worth more funds were allocated.The first being a canvas knose bag which doubled up as a water bucket and feed bag which was carried in canvas saddle bags slung over the rear arch of the saddle, it had a slit in it which fitted over the arch and the rider sat on this part to stop the bags from falling of. The bucket had a long strap which was placed over the horses head and pulled up to the muzle so that he could eat, the bucket was turned inside out for water. Whilst using the SU saddles we used blankets of which there were plenty, a QM dream on how to dispose of old blankets, send the to Grey' and write them off. However they becaim a problem under field conditions if they were not kept clean, when we adopted the new saddles we changed to a foam rubbertype with a cotton overlay they were easier to keep clean and made good pillows. Another derivative came from your country, that being the vest which we adapted to carry not only mags, grenades and so on, we also straped on light weight sleeping bags on the back, introduced a large pocket to carry field rations and a gas cooker.

[george seal]

Hi Roy,
It's nice to have you in this forum.
I've developed an interest in this regiment for some time and it's pretty difficult to find reliable info. I'll try to unearth links to the stuff I've found over time to ask you your opinion on the quality of the information.

I read that the origin opf the Mounted Infantry Unit was an ad hoc horse colum used to supply isolated bases after a flood.

As for a reduction of terrorist activity in the area of operation of the regiment, I'm not surprised. When I was in Military School (in Chile) I did not get to participate in guerrilla/counter guerrilla field excercices but I participated in something similar. In one excersice, I was part of a 3 man team that had to traverse terrain on foot without being spotted. Basically we only had our rifles, similar to what a guerrilla fighter would have in an infiltration (no jeep or support of any kind). We found it was easy to ambush and/or avoid troops on motorcicles that were looking fopr us. In was case I just laid down by the road behind a bush, the motorbike drove past me very close (arms lenght), all I needed to do was jump up and fire (a blank of course). Now a horse would have been very different. I did not see the motorbike until the last second. I heard it lond before. A horse has no motor and the rider has the vantage point of view (I probably would have been spotted) and, unlike a motorbike driver a horse rider can shoot you.

It was much harder to avoid other soldiers on foot, but in one case were it's posible I was seen, I was able to just run away. Any horse would have caught up with me.

[roy elderkin]

To continue we also put the water bottles and cups onto the vest this gave us a complete package, so thank you USA for the vest that we adapted for our use. No rifle buckets were used, rifles were either slung or carried. Up until 1978 the FN was the standard rifle of the Rhodesian forces, after this date the G3 was introduced so a mix of FM and G3 was carried, standard side arm was the 9mm FM automatic or Berreta. On opps camo was used as every day wear, riding boots were not issued, boots were not the standard mars pattern but the flat soled SAS type it was found that mars type would catch in the stirrup iron so we used the flat sole. After 1980 Officers wore riding boots and white breeches which we had to pay for, I already had this type of dress to go with the greens tunic as I used to compete in skill at arms events [ sword, lance tent pegging]. I will close for now and follow this up.

roy

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by roy elderkin
pat

Before I try to answer your questions did you receive the Grey's scroll I sent and some pages of Grey's history.

Roy,

I did not receive it. I just rechecked my SPAM filter, and it doesn't appear to be caught in there.

I've added your email to the pass through list. You may wish to try to send it to holscher@rmisp.com

Sorry, but it doesn't appear to have gotten through.

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Roy referenced a photo depicting him in the Grey's Scouts. That photo appears in this link. Roy is the only mounted soldier depicted here, riding his Grey's Scout's horse Frazer:

http://www.fnfal.com/falfiles/raw.html



Pat

[roy elderkin]

Originally posted by Pat Holscher
Roy referenced a photo depicting him in the Grey's Scouts. That photo appears in this link. Roy is the only mounted soldier depicted here, riding his Grey's Scout's horse Frazer:

http://www.fnfal.com/falfiles/raw.html



Pat

Another person we were to rely on for many of our horses was a dealer in Bulawayo Ernie Stock. It was he that obtained our first batch of Horses, forty in all. They came from an area in South Africa namely Carlsberg and Newcastle. This area was noted for the horses that served our purpose, they were extremely hardy, and could live in extreme conditions the were descendants of old Boer animals, and British cavalry horses, mostly Australian whalers brought over during the Boer War. They were known for their temperament, and the ability to live off extremely sparse vegetation, as was observed in very dry spells, when they were observed to eat the leaves off trees.

One of these horses I selected, and named after the OC, Frazer, this horse was to serve me well in the coming period, and was extremely quick to learn, which indicated his intelligence, he was extremely faithful, and would not allow many people to ride him. He was unfortunately lost during an attack on a base camp near Victoria Fails in 1979

[roy elderkin]

On the situation in 1975:

Having studied the Boer war and the restrictions placed on the British Cavalry, who had to carry some extra eighty pounds of equipment. We opted for the Boer way, in that we restricted the amount carried by each man to forty pounds, and included the weapons and saddlery. Only one change of clothes was allowed two hundred rounds of ammunition one sleeping bag, and two water bottles. Although we were issued with twenty four hour rat packs, most men opted for Pronutro, a form of porridge, a highly nutritious and sustaining food, much favoured by the RSAS and RLI (Rhodesia Light Infantry) and can be mixed with hot or cold milk or water. One man carried a gas cooker, which was worked on the buddy system, i.e., two men sharing.

A set of saddle-bags as designed which was placed over the rear arch of the saddle, the riders weight keeping it in position (See diagram 1) with the sleeping bag rolled and tied behind the saddle. One side the horses and mans food, the other side contained spare clothing the gas cooker and or cartridge. It was decided that we would have four night stops, so the vehicles loaded with stores would move independently of the main body and set up the night stops. Ray was allocated to one bale for four horses and issued in the morning and evening. No hay was carried during normal stops along the road, and available grazing had to be utilised. Animal welfare we knew would not be a problem as the majority of the soldiers were farmers or horse owners and would take great care of their animals. A canvas bucket was designed and doubled up as a feeding and water bucket, for humans and horses, and was simply slipped over the horses head when feeding.

The saddlery used was the British army pattern. The saddle and blanket making an ideal pillow at night On the halter bridle was attached a spring clip, normal British Army picketing was not allowed as will be explained later, The men wore normal camouflage clothing, combat cap and forty four pattern webbing. Mars pattern boots were not used; instead a flat soled SAS boot was used. The feeling was that if we were ambushed and horses bolted which could happen, as these horses were untrained that the men could not kick the stirrup irons clear with the patterned boots but with the flat soles it would be easier. Our greatest concern was how the men and horses would react in contact situations, fortunately this was not put to the test. The men's reactions we knew, as they were all experienced soldiers, many of then having been in contacts before, the animals were another matter. The general idea was to travel thirty-five kilometres per day, leaving at sun up, so as to get to base camp in daylight. The day we left Umtali put the first part of our operations back, the city had heard of our existence and our destination, so when we set out on that Monday morning, it looked as if the whole City was there to say good-bye. I suppose nothing had been seen like this since the Matabele wars, horse soldiers were a thing of the past it was like being resurrected from the grave. We were escorted out of the city limits, leaving later than we anticipated. Once clear of our entourage, and the city we broke the Unit into groups, comprising of fifteen men to a group led by a senior NCO, who acted as Troop leader. They were then set out at fifteen-minute intervals, this was done intentionally; we did not want a large body of men traveling on the main road, as this would cause congestion, secondly it would also offer a large target if we should be ambushed. It was no secret of what our intentions were, but neither were we going to hand ourselves over on a plate, so if any group got into difficulty another group could help. Each group was equipped with a radio, and could call up the other groups or the main base. Unfortunately I ended up as tail end Charley, with Major Frazer-Kirk, and Tony Stephens, we brought up the rear to keep an eye on stragglers, or men and horses in difficulties. As I was appointed as the vet. I carried the veterinary pack as well as my own equipment. Being the equitation Instructor I was supposed to be knowledgeable on all things horsy. But I was treading on unfamiliar territory, having to rely on experience gained in the Police and from the Kings Troop RHA, thankfully a great deal of work with horses is based on common sense which did not fail me.

[roy elderkin]

The situation in 1976:

Saddlery and webbing were the next item on the agenda. The British Army saddle we were using was a poor imitation of the original. These saddles were made in South Africa. But instead of the fixed wooden tree we wanted, these saddles had a flexible tree, and the pads were badly stuffed and had a tendency to roll off the wooden boats, with the result that if not checked continuously, these gave the horses sore backs. When one considers that a patrol was thirty-five kilometres a day and a patrol went out for four days, this was not a satisfactory arrangement. They were not popular with the men who found them uncomfortable heavy, and difficult to repair, as there were too many parts to wear. On follow ups of spoor there was no time to lose worry about saddles. Gordon Johnson a local saddler had an American Army saddle the McLelland that he lent to us for user trials. The tree was made from glass fibre (The original had a wooden frame) the girth rings and stirrup bars were attached to metal straps which were moulded into the fibreglass. This made an extremely light and flexible saddle, weighing just under five pounds The saddle at first extremely uncomfortable, as it consisted of only a front a rear arch with two boat shaped strips joining them, but once used everything else felt uncomfortable. This saddle gave the men good support when riding hard on follow-ups. The maintenance was reduced to the minimum, with very few wearing parts and we had little or no problems with sore backs on horses, Thereby increasing the animal’s efficiency and good health.

[roy elderkin]

To continue we also put the water bottles and cups onto the vest this gave us a complete package, so thank you USA for the vest that we adapted for our use. No rifle buckets were used, rifles were either slung or carried. Up until 1978 the FN was the standard rifle of the Rhodesian forces, after this date the G3 was introduced so a mix of FM and G3 was carried, standard side arm was the 9mm FM automatic or Berreta. On opps camo was used as every day wear, riding boots were not issued, boots were not the standard mars pattern but the flat soled SAS type it was found that mars type would catch in the stirrup iron so we used the flat sole. After 1980 Officers wore riding boots and white breeches which we had to pay for, I allready had this type of dress to go with the greens tunic as I used to compete in skill at arms events [ sword, lance tent pegging]. I will close for now and follow this up.


The policy of Grey's and is continued to this day, is to carry less reduced weight including the rider, if a soldier was overweight he either reduced or could not continue riding. The saddle was readily accepted and we discarded the other form of saddle. Another problem we encountered was the 44-pattern webbing this was not ideal, as
It had to be worn high Up on the body, so that the water bottles were clear of the hips These bounced around when galloping leaving one fairly bruised when they were full of water, and even worse when half empty, and noisy when empty. Worn high the ammunition pouches were difficult to get at in a contact, and equally more difficult when one was carrying grenades as well as radios. The solution was found not by us, but an idea copied from the opposition. Don Kenny who was in charge of “A” squadron, before an officer was appointed, found on the contact mentioned earlier that a number of Terrorists were wearing Chinese chest webbing. That consisted of a number of ammunition pouches covering the top of the chest, with straps going over the shoulders hold it in place. The 44-pattern webbing was hastily discarded. For the next few days everyone who could get hold of them, were walking around with a set of Chinese webbing. No one objected but they could have cleaned him or her up first, and few bullet holes mended. From that simple set of webbing and idea was born. Using the idea of a flack jacket, and chest webbing a lightweight camouflage vest was designed, with ammunition and water bottle pouches built into the vest, with kidney pouches, and a radio pouch built into the back, there was now no need to fiddle around with straps and buckles, everything was contained in the vest, ammunition, food, grenades, radio, and water bottles. Even to a strap to hold a lightweight sleeping bag. Most of the men preferred to tie the sleeping bag behind the rear arch of the saddle. One had now only to pickup the vest, slip it on and zip it up, extremely easy and quick if time was of an essence.

The forty-pound weight restriction still enforced on a four-day patrol no extra clothes were carried. The RLI (Rhodesia Light Infantry) carried less than forty pounds per man, and their op. duties were three days, with the motto ingrained in their minds "If you want to wear it carry it, but don't complain"

[roy elderkin]

To continue we also put the water bottles and cups onto the vest this gave us a complete package, so thank you USA for the vest that we adapted for our use. No rifle buckets were used, rifles were either slung or carried. Up until 1978 the FN was the standard rifle of the Rhodesian forces, after this date the G3 was introduced so a mix of FM and G3 was carried, standard side arm was the 9mm FM automatic or Berreta. On opps camo was used as every day wear, riding boots were not issued, boots were not the standard mars pattern but the flat soled SAS type it was found that mars type would catch in the stirrup iron so we used the flat sole. After 1980 Officers wore riding boots and white breeches which we had to pay for, I allready had this type of dress to go with the greens tunic as I used to compete in skill at arms events [ sword, lance tent pegging]. I will close for now and follow this up.


On the question of weapons we were encumbered by the FN Rifle, a good weapon but heavy for mounted soldiers, as well as unwieldy especially when working in heavy bush. The only respite we were to get was the introduction of the Israeli Uzi sub machine gun, and the G3 a shorter lighter weapon, though easily damaged if dropped form a horse in contact. Most soldiers would have preferred to use the RPD or the AK47 if it had been allowed these would have been ideal for us. It is hard enough to carry a FN with two hands, but when one has to carry it for days with one hand, whilst guiding a horse with the other, it gets very heavy.
Towards the end of the war, the Regiment was equipped with the RPD, AK47, SKS, as well as the G3. Every soldier carried a hand gun, either the browning 9mm or star, although if one was lucky enough, the Togorof was much prized, after a contact there was a general free for all looking for these pistols, before the Police SB came to claim the bodies.