Jodhpurs

[Couvi]

I am curious as to why riding breeches, Jodhpurs?, flair out at the sides and are so tight at the ankle.

[wkambic]

The "flair" is likely caused by the lack of elasticized fabric at the time they were developed. That is one relatively easy way of putting "give" in part of the garment.

The tight lower leg allows the wearer to easily put on half chaps or puttees when preparing to mount a horse.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

[tmarsh]

I think they were originally from India and later transition to England then US. Tom

[wkambic]

Found this:

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/jodhpu ... re-to-buy/

I found other articles but this was one of the better ones!

[Couvi]

Bill,

Thanks,

[Pat Holscher]

Has everyone seen War Horse, the film?

Granted, just a movie of course, but Indian cavalry is depicted early in the film wearing Jodhpurs in a manner that doesn't look, well, goofy. I suppose that's close to their original use. I note that as it'd be tough to pull off wearing jodhpurs in this day and age, and to an extent, 1920s movie mogul aside, I suspect that's always been true.

[selewis]

I've never worn jods but I would assume the same principle applies as does with flair britches. Below the knee they are tight like a sock so that they will fit inside your boot. Because they are tight around your calf they can't slide up like normal trousers when you sit; hence the need for extra fabric or, as Bill notes, stretchy fabric. Modern flairs have a bit of both. I prefer flairs to the ubiquitous stretch pants which look fetching on women- but I won't wear 'em.

Dover saddlery used to offer riding jeans that were tight around the lower calf and they were great for everyday riding but they are no longer available and I wish I'd bought up ten pairs when I could. Other companies now offer riding jeans but they are tight like women's jeans. Kentucky, a German maker, makes sensible flair britches. Expensive, of course, but worth it.

A while ago Pat mentioned that a Polo player he'd talked to said that they often wear Wrangler MWZ 13's. I've found that they work fairly well with half chaps if you fold them over neatly toward the outside of you leg and sit as you buckle up your chaps. That way they lie flat with just one layer of fabric against your inner calf and there's a little extra fabric above your knee. However, with lace ups or, by extension, any tight boot there's too much extra material to ruck around inside your boot. I've thought of cutting off the cuff seam and maybe the lower six inches or so but haven't tried it.

Sandy

[Pat Holscher]

A while ago Pat mentioned that a Polo player he'd talked to said that they often wear Wrangler MWZ 13's. I've found that they work fairly well with half chaps if you fold them over neatly toward the outside of you leg and sit as you buckle up your chaps. That way they lie flat with just one layer of fabric against your inner calf and there's a little extra fabric above your knee. However, with lace ups or, by extension, any tight boot there's too much extra material to ruck around inside your boot. I've thought of cutting off the cuff seam and maybe the lower six inches or so but haven't tried it.

Sandy

Jim Ott was actually the person who made the observation about the Wranglers, but after he noted that, I observed at a polo match that I was at that this was in fact the case. The players were universally wearing white Wranglers.

Wrangler 13MWZs were introduced in 1947 and are the only Jean that was every specifically aimed at the cowboy market, and hence the only Jean that was ever designed with riding in mind. By that time several other brands of Jeans had seen widespread cowboy use, including Levi 501s and Lee's, but their use by cowboys was incidental to the design, not because they'd been designed for them. Lee was actually a larger company than Levis up until the 1950s, and Levis were actually not worn much west of the Mississippi. Movies really promoted the idea that 19th Century cowboys wore Levis, but that was pretty rare and in fact they almost always wore wool trousers. The washing machine, which started to come in after World War One in a major way, really changed all of this as cotton trousers are washable, and wool trouser are much more difficult to wash.

Anyhow, Wrangler 13MWZs are a bit higher wasted than Levis are, they have high rear pockets, and they're a bit roomier. So they're overall more comfortable to wear while riding. All the various patterns of jeans basically have shotgun still legs, so all of them will fit into cowboy boots just fine. Up until World War One, almost all cowboy boots went up to the knees and the typical custom was to pull your boots on over the legs, but World War One leather shortages introduced the "stubby" boot, and those have predominated ever since. Wranglers, coming in during the stubby era, are a bit looser in the pant than Levis or Lees, and my guess is that they figured that the trouser would be pulled over the boot usually, and it usually is.

I find that Wranglers, which I like for riding better than Levis, are more comfortable than Levis in general and definitely are for riding. I will wear full chaps with mine, or half chaps. For a lace up boot, you have to have the trouser over the boot.

My perception of jeans has changed a bit over the years. For all my youth and into my 20s I usually wore Levi 501s and occasionally Lees. I didn't start wearing Wranglers until I was in my 30s. I really like the fit of Wranglers better, but I like the appearance of Levis the best. Levis, however, seem plagued with inconsistencies every since the factories moved overseas, so when you buy a pair its a bit like gambling, although recently they seem to have regained consistency. Nonetheless, the 501s are definitely lower wasted as a rule than other jeans and even though I'm far from being chubby, a guy in his early 50s who works mostly at a desk might find the 501 cut less appealing than the Wrangler or Lee cut.

[Pat Holscher]

Found this:

I found other articles but this was one of the better ones!

It's interesting how that style became so popular in certain circles. And it lasted as a popular style for a surprisingly long time.

[wkambic]

Levis for a time in the late '80s made the 557 jeans that were similar to the Wranglers in cut. The seemed a bit more roomy in the crotch and had the flat seam on the inside of the leg. I preferred them to the Wranglers. They quit making them some time in the early 90's. I've worn Wranglers (the 31MZW or "relaxed fit") ever since.

I seldom ride Western anymore and my standard attire are cotton breeches from What Price Glory and some older cotton shirts left over from CAS days. They have the traditional "voluminous sleeve" and work quite well. For winter wear I've got some wool WPG breeches in officer's "pink." They are nearly perfect for the East TN winter climate. If it gets really cold I have some silk long johns from Cabelas. Or I just don't ride.

Stubben, and most other English saddle makers, discourage the use of denim in riding pants of any kind. They claim that denim is a "hard" fabric that, over time, erode seat leather. I've had some other saddle makers agree with this and some others say it's a bunch of hooey. I do know that, historically, denim was the fabric of miners, puddlers, and convicts. It wasn't much used in the U.S. Military outside the Navy, although I've seen photos of some late '30s cavalry troopers in a denim work uniform. I don't know how extensively they were used.

I lack the conformation for spandex. I don't like the feel of most of the synthetic fabrics; they tend to slick as a baby's bottom. The WPG offerings are wool or cotton, reasonably priced, fit well, and wear very well. He also has some British model breeches in Bedford Cord; I'll likely see if I can get Santa to bring me some this year!

[Brian P.]

The denim fatigue uniform was common wear for the Cavalry in the late '30's and early '40's. Sam Cox can show a bunch of pictures.

[Pat Holscher]

Stubben, and most other English saddle makers, discourage the use of denim in riding pants of any kind. They claim that denim is a "hard" fabric that, over time, erode seat leather. I've had some other saddle makers agree with this and some others say it's a bunch of hooey. I do know that, historically, denim was the fabric of miners, puddlers, and convicts. It wasn't much used in the U.S. Military outside the Navy, although I've seen photos of some late '30s cavalry troopers in a denim work uniform. I don't know how extensively they were used.

What's a "puddler"?

The Army went to a blue denim set of fatigues in 1919, replacing the brown cotton duck uniform it had been using since the 1890s, which itself replaced a white cotton duck uniform. All these uniforms were fatigue uniforms, with at least the white uniform being a stable uniform. While it was never intended to be worn in the field, the white uniform often was in the Southwest, leading to the nickname "Government Ghosts" for soldiers. The brown cotton duck uniform also saw field use as it was pressed into that use during the Spanish American War and quite a few units, including the 1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry, went to Cuba wearing their cotton duck fatigue uniforms. That uniform bears a strong resemblance to the Carhartt cotton duck clothing that seees a lot of use in the West in the oilfields, and even on ranches. Reportedly the dye used to color the uniform smelled horrible.

Why the Army replaced the brown uniform with the blue denim one I have no idea, but that demonstrated the Army's concept that in spite of it having seen Frontier service and Spanish American War service, it was not a field uniform. The idea was just to have a uniform that was suitable for garrison fatigue work and could be easily washed. In that, it made sense, as wool is hard to wash, and wool was the basic service cloth up until the late 1920s when cotton service uniforms started to be introduced.

The blue fatigue uniform served in to early World War Two, but at that time the Army started to issue cotton combat uniforms in green for the first time, reflecting the conditions of a global conflict. When that started, it dawned on the Army and the Marine Corps that the uniforms they were issuing weren't really very different from fatigue uniforms anyway, and they phased out the blue denim uniform. The name stuck, however, and OD cotton uniforms were nicknamed "fatigues" forever.

[Pat Holscher]

The denim fatigue uniform was common wear for the Cavalry in the late '30's and early '40's. Sam Cox can show a bunch of pictures.

Indeed he does!