1912 Officers Experimental saddle

[Cesar Dubon]

Hi guys, I'm interested in making a 1912 Punitive officers saddle. But I'm a little confused. There's a website I've used in the past, The Military Memorial Museum.
http://www.militarymemorialmuseum.org/army_cavalry.asp

There's a saddle there described as the 1912 officers experimental during the Punitive expedition, except its very different from the 1912 I've seen on this forum. If I'm not mistaken the 1912 enlisted and officers are very similar, although I'm not even sure what the difference is between the two. Below is the photo and you can see it's very different from the 1912 for obvious reasons. The rear of the cantle is similar to a McClellan. Can anyone elaborate on this saddle? Thanks.
Cesar


http://www.militarymemorialmuseum.org/army_cavalry.asp

[ scroll to 1912 OFFICER (PUNITIVE EXPEDITION) ]

[Todd]

That is a Whitman officers saddle, and has nothing in common with any of the M1912 equipments.

Well, that's a Whitman seat - the rest of it looks like a mismatched jumble of stuff. The bags are experimental canvas bags, the stirrups are from McClellan pattern (Whitman officer saddle of this vintage would have knife-edge metal stirrups), no idea what the pouch is on the pommel ring, definitely not issue.

[Rick Throckmorton]

I agree with Todd on the saddle shown. It is a M1904 Whitman Officers Saddle. Like the same period McClellans, they came in two patterns. The initial form had solid quarter straps like the first pattern M1904 McClellan saddles, while the second type had brass(bronze) stirrup strap loops mounted on the corners of the side bars to allow the buckled, fully adjustable type quarter straps to be used like on the second pattern '04 McClellans. Typically, the second type of quarter strap set up is thought to be 1908 and after, but the arsenal drawings on the Whitman saddles show them both being available in 1904.

The M1912 Officers Saddle is substantially different than the Service Saddle in dimensions, design, furniture, and quality of materials. Also, collectors have seen a fair number of M1912 Service Saddles that have had the spoon removed, the leather trimmed, and the cantle seam sewn up, and then passed (or at least attempted to be passed) as officers pattern saddles. While these are admittedly a fair representation of an officers saddle, there are other details that are missed, such as the officers cantle loop. Of interest, is that all of the saddles that have been converted in this manner are done identically in method and materiels, and style of workmanship. It makes me wonder if this wasn't an arsenal conversion of surplus M1912 Service Saddles into a more usable officers or training saddle. Photographic evidence shows that the Service Saddles were issued to what appears to be state or militia troops, mixed with other patterns of bridles and other equipments. I suspect the psuedo officers versions may have been issued in similar ways.

Rick T

[Brian P.]

I believe that the pouch mounted on the pommel of that saddle is a compass pouch for the leather officer's belt ("Sam Brown").

[Varangian]

A picture and description of the experimental officer's saddle can be found on pages 264 and 265 of JUSCA #23.

[Pat Holscher]

A picture and description of the experimental officer's saddle can be found on pages 264 and 265 of JUSCA #23.

Or you can just look here, on our site:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9902

[Pat Holscher]

Bumped up due to related thread.