I'll chime in with a recently released movie, A Very Long Engagement. While this one can be written off as a "chick flick" by some, it has very good and accurate war scenes interspersed with both a love and detective story. The search by the main character (portrayed by a lovely and fragile Audrey Tatou) for her lover, a French Poilu thought to have been executed at the front, is very poignant. It blends the horror and turmoil of the front with the war's afteraffect on the civilian population in a very adult manner. It also addresses the stupidity of the French military bureaucracy much as Paths of Glory does. A great non-Hollywood ending. I've seen a few books printed about shellshocked French Soldiers that all of a sudden popped up in society with their memories missing, one in particular stands out called "The Living Unknown Soldier". I'm sure this movie was inspired by such true life stories. Check it out, it's available now on DVD.[8D]
Steve
Most Moving War Movies
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throwback
i thought the theme was worthwhile, but the story much too surreal (or worse still, improbable).
"paths of glory," is to my mind the best on the war-wearyness of the french conscript. the end, when kirk douglas realizes that he WASN'T mistaken when he insisted that the soldiers are human, is a very realistic tearjerker (with the scared alsatian girl singing hesitatingly, sweetly, to the drunken poulis on the eve of their returning to combat).
the tv film "execution of pvt. slovak" did a pretty credible job for the u.s. in ww2, although compared to the french in ww1, we hardly shot any of OUR draftees.
all these films, of course, could do with a lot more hosses.
"paths of glory," is to my mind the best on the war-wearyness of the french conscript. the end, when kirk douglas realizes that he WASN'T mistaken when he insisted that the soldiers are human, is a very realistic tearjerker (with the scared alsatian girl singing hesitatingly, sweetly, to the drunken poulis on the eve of their returning to combat).
the tv film "execution of pvt. slovak" did a pretty credible job for the u.s. in ww2, although compared to the french in ww1, we hardly shot any of OUR draftees.
all these films, of course, could do with a lot more hosses.
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Camp Little
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I'd agree with the surreal part, but it is a French movie in French with subtitles, so that part comes with the territory.[;)] Jodie Foster's bit part was pretty interesting, given she did it in French without overdubbing, that Harvard (or was it Yale?) education paid off.
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Beck
If I may make a few observations about War/Military/War as a background movies -
I’ve seen most of the films spoken of already and many are fine. The Hill is a superior piece I think.
Master and Commander: The ship model of the French ship is actually a hull model of the large Constitution type frigates of the USN..including the diagonal strakes (?) that help prevent hogging in the wooden hulls.
Patton: An outstanding film and allow me to correct you Pat it came out in 1969..at least that is the copyright date on my VHS version of it…and I remember paying to see it what seemed like a kazillion times in 1970.
Zulu: A truly excellent film. I agree with whomever said it Color Sergeant Bourne (sp?) is the best characterization in the film. At the time it came out 1964 I believe there was quite the racial unrest and when I saw the Zulus PHD (piled high and deep) at the end of the flick I thought “I wonder if the NAACP has seen this one?”
I am attracted to films that show the cost of war and the impact of war on civilians. Among my favored ones are:
Mrs. Miniver - 1940
About the effect of the Blitz/WWII on an English family and their community. Greer Garson and Walter Pigeon.
So Proudly We Hail - 1943
Details the tribulations of Army nurses on Bataan and Corregidor in the early days of WWII. Claudette Colbert, Paulette Goddard and Veronica Lake.
Three Came Home - 1950
With Sessue Hayakawa, Patric Knowles and Claudette Colbert about women and children in Japanese prison camps in WWII. Excellent!
The Men - 1953(?)
Deals with paraplegics from the Korean War. Marlon Brando and Jack Webb are the main characters.
And my personal favorite of this type – The Best Years of Our lives – 1946
Showing the impact of returning to civilian life after WWII and that it wasn’t apiece of cake to drop a rifle and pick up your old civvies job again. Starred Fredrick March and Myrna Loy.
Other outstanding films IMHO in no particular order:
Bataan - 1942/3
With Robert Taylor, Thomas Mitchell, Lloyd Nolan, Robert Walker and Desi Arnaz! Fighting off the Japanese Army at a critical bridge.
They Were Expendable - 1945
John Wayne and Robert Montgomery based upon the William White book of the same name – PT boats in the Philippines.
The Gallant Hours - 1960
James Cagney as Adm. Bull Halsey. A superior film of the trying days on Guadalcanal in 1942/43.
Gung Ho - 1942
Randolph Scott and loosely based upon the Makin raid by Carlson and his Marine Raiders.
Marine Raiders -1943
Robert Ryan and Ruth Hussey and Pat O’Brien. Marines in Australia in WWII.
Flight Command -1940
Robert Taylor, ruth Hussey and Walter Pigeon in a story about the tribulations of Fighting 8 in Grumman F3Fs in San Diego prior to WWII. Also featured Red Skelton in his usual but toned down humor.
Hell Divers - 1932
Clark Gable and Wallace Beery as Navy Chief Petty Officers on a carrier flying bi-planes..F3Fs or maybe F2Fs?
Sahara - 1943
Humphrey Bogart, Dan Duryea, in a an M3 tank fighting the Nazis at a drywell in the Libyan Sahara..no duh.
Sailor of the King – 1953
Jeffrey Hunter and Michael Rennie. An Outstanding film of a captured British sailor who single handedly holds up a damaged Nazi cruiser so the Cavalry (British Navy) can come to the rescue and blow it out of the water.
Standby for Action - 1942
Robert Taylor on a 4 stack tin can fighting Japanese Battleships with a fantail full of children and babies. Much Fun! Also with Charles Laughton.
Command Decision - 1948
Clark Gable as an USAAC General in England during 1944, making unfavorable decisions to bomb important targets in Germany. Also with Walter Pigeon, Charles Bickford, Brian Donlevy.
Waterloo Bridge – 1940
Robert Taylor and Vivien Leigh an American aviator and a British lady fall in love in London during WWII.
Darby’s Rangers – 1958
James Garner and a bunch of Hollywood regulars tell the story of the Rangers.
Wings of Eagles – 1957
John Wayne and Maureen O’Hara in the bio of Spig Weed. A Navy pilot before WWII who becomes a paraplegic and goes to Hollywood as a screenwriter and then in WWII comes up with the idea of “jeep” carriers..AKA Escort Carriers.
Exodus - 1960
Leon Uris’ novel brought to the silver screen against the backdrop of Israeli independence. Paul Newman, Eve Marie Saint, Lee J. Cobb. A truly superior film.
A Walk in the Sun – 1945
Dana Andrews, Richard Conte, John Ireland in a story of a U.S. Army patrol in Italy. Very gritty and suberb movie making.
A Bell for Adano – 1945
John Hodiak and Gene Tierney in the adaption of John Hersey’s best seller of an Italian town under US occupation during WWII. Excellent character study.
Gunga Din – 1939
Cary Grant Victor Mclaglen, Douglas Fairbanks Jr, and Sam Jaffe in the title role. Based on Kipling’s immortal poem. Fun and damn good production values.
On a funny side:
Operation Petticoat - 1959
Cary Grant and Tony Curtis on a pink submarine overflowing with army nurses.
What Price Glory? – 1952
The play originally written as an anti-war piece has been done at least twice. My most recent remembrance is the version with James Cagney and Dan Daily as Captain Flagg and Sergeant Quirt, also with Corinne Calvet. There was an earlier silent version in 1926 with Victor McLaglen as the captain and Edmund Lowe as the sergeant. Basically Marines in France in WWI. Is funny but has its serious side too.
Casablanca – 1943
Humphrey Bogart, Ingrid Bergman, Claude Rains, and Paul Henried and my favorite Nazi, Conrad Veidt. The classic love story set against the early days of WWII in French Morocco. Some claim it to be the quintessential love story movie.
WWII had a Plethora of propaganda films of which some I love and others aren’t worth watching other than to see famous people when they weren’t so famous. Also some good British films from the war years or right after come to mind.
In Which We Serve - 1942 stands out in my mind but there were several others including Sink the Bismarck - 1960 with Kenneth More and Dana Wynter.
Thanks for allowing me to babble on.
Beck
I’ve seen most of the films spoken of already and many are fine. The Hill is a superior piece I think.
Master and Commander: The ship model of the French ship is actually a hull model of the large Constitution type frigates of the USN..including the diagonal strakes (?) that help prevent hogging in the wooden hulls.
Patton: An outstanding film and allow me to correct you Pat it came out in 1969..at least that is the copyright date on my VHS version of it…and I remember paying to see it what seemed like a kazillion times in 1970.
Zulu: A truly excellent film. I agree with whomever said it Color Sergeant Bourne (sp?) is the best characterization in the film. At the time it came out 1964 I believe there was quite the racial unrest and when I saw the Zulus PHD (piled high and deep) at the end of the flick I thought “I wonder if the NAACP has seen this one?”
I am attracted to films that show the cost of war and the impact of war on civilians. Among my favored ones are:
Mrs. Miniver - 1940
About the effect of the Blitz/WWII on an English family and their community. Greer Garson and Walter Pigeon.
So Proudly We Hail - 1943
Details the tribulations of Army nurses on Bataan and Corregidor in the early days of WWII. Claudette Colbert, Paulette Goddard and Veronica Lake.
Three Came Home - 1950
With Sessue Hayakawa, Patric Knowles and Claudette Colbert about women and children in Japanese prison camps in WWII. Excellent!
The Men - 1953(?)
Deals with paraplegics from the Korean War. Marlon Brando and Jack Webb are the main characters.
And my personal favorite of this type – The Best Years of Our lives – 1946
Showing the impact of returning to civilian life after WWII and that it wasn’t apiece of cake to drop a rifle and pick up your old civvies job again. Starred Fredrick March and Myrna Loy.
Other outstanding films IMHO in no particular order:
Bataan - 1942/3
With Robert Taylor, Thomas Mitchell, Lloyd Nolan, Robert Walker and Desi Arnaz! Fighting off the Japanese Army at a critical bridge.
They Were Expendable - 1945
John Wayne and Robert Montgomery based upon the William White book of the same name – PT boats in the Philippines.
The Gallant Hours - 1960
James Cagney as Adm. Bull Halsey. A superior film of the trying days on Guadalcanal in 1942/43.
Gung Ho - 1942
Randolph Scott and loosely based upon the Makin raid by Carlson and his Marine Raiders.
Marine Raiders -1943
Robert Ryan and Ruth Hussey and Pat O’Brien. Marines in Australia in WWII.
Flight Command -1940
Robert Taylor, ruth Hussey and Walter Pigeon in a story about the tribulations of Fighting 8 in Grumman F3Fs in San Diego prior to WWII. Also featured Red Skelton in his usual but toned down humor.
Hell Divers - 1932
Clark Gable and Wallace Beery as Navy Chief Petty Officers on a carrier flying bi-planes..F3Fs or maybe F2Fs?
Sahara - 1943
Humphrey Bogart, Dan Duryea, in a an M3 tank fighting the Nazis at a drywell in the Libyan Sahara..no duh.
Sailor of the King – 1953
Jeffrey Hunter and Michael Rennie. An Outstanding film of a captured British sailor who single handedly holds up a damaged Nazi cruiser so the Cavalry (British Navy) can come to the rescue and blow it out of the water.
Standby for Action - 1942
Robert Taylor on a 4 stack tin can fighting Japanese Battleships with a fantail full of children and babies. Much Fun! Also with Charles Laughton.
Command Decision - 1948
Clark Gable as an USAAC General in England during 1944, making unfavorable decisions to bomb important targets in Germany. Also with Walter Pigeon, Charles Bickford, Brian Donlevy.
Waterloo Bridge – 1940
Robert Taylor and Vivien Leigh an American aviator and a British lady fall in love in London during WWII.
Darby’s Rangers – 1958
James Garner and a bunch of Hollywood regulars tell the story of the Rangers.
Wings of Eagles – 1957
John Wayne and Maureen O’Hara in the bio of Spig Weed. A Navy pilot before WWII who becomes a paraplegic and goes to Hollywood as a screenwriter and then in WWII comes up with the idea of “jeep” carriers..AKA Escort Carriers.
Exodus - 1960
Leon Uris’ novel brought to the silver screen against the backdrop of Israeli independence. Paul Newman, Eve Marie Saint, Lee J. Cobb. A truly superior film.
A Walk in the Sun – 1945
Dana Andrews, Richard Conte, John Ireland in a story of a U.S. Army patrol in Italy. Very gritty and suberb movie making.
A Bell for Adano – 1945
John Hodiak and Gene Tierney in the adaption of John Hersey’s best seller of an Italian town under US occupation during WWII. Excellent character study.
Gunga Din – 1939
Cary Grant Victor Mclaglen, Douglas Fairbanks Jr, and Sam Jaffe in the title role. Based on Kipling’s immortal poem. Fun and damn good production values.
On a funny side:
Operation Petticoat - 1959
Cary Grant and Tony Curtis on a pink submarine overflowing with army nurses.
What Price Glory? – 1952
The play originally written as an anti-war piece has been done at least twice. My most recent remembrance is the version with James Cagney and Dan Daily as Captain Flagg and Sergeant Quirt, also with Corinne Calvet. There was an earlier silent version in 1926 with Victor McLaglen as the captain and Edmund Lowe as the sergeant. Basically Marines in France in WWI. Is funny but has its serious side too.
Casablanca – 1943
Humphrey Bogart, Ingrid Bergman, Claude Rains, and Paul Henried and my favorite Nazi, Conrad Veidt. The classic love story set against the early days of WWII in French Morocco. Some claim it to be the quintessential love story movie.
WWII had a Plethora of propaganda films of which some I love and others aren’t worth watching other than to see famous people when they weren’t so famous. Also some good British films from the war years or right after come to mind.
In Which We Serve - 1942 stands out in my mind but there were several others including Sink the Bismarck - 1960 with Kenneth More and Dana Wynter.
Thanks for allowing me to babble on.
Beck
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Joseph Sullivan
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Great list of films.
BTW, on Master and Commander -- in the novel, the ship IS American, but Peter Weir probably thought that would hurt ticket sales here in the US of A. As much as I like faithful films, I can't fault that decision. However, in the film, the Frenchman is portrayed as having been built in a Yankee shipyard (and seen under construction by one of the Surprise crew). That being the case, the model you describe would be about spot on.
J
BTW, on Master and Commander -- in the novel, the ship IS American, but Peter Weir probably thought that would hurt ticket sales here in the US of A. As much as I like faithful films, I can't fault that decision. However, in the film, the Frenchman is portrayed as having been built in a Yankee shipyard (and seen under construction by one of the Surprise crew). That being the case, the model you describe would be about spot on.
J
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Joseph Sullivan</i>
<br />Great list of films.
BTW, on Master and Commander -- in the novel, the ship IS American, but Peter Weir probably thought that would hurt ticket sales here in the US of A. As much as I like faithful films, I can't fault that decision. However, in the film, the Frenchman is portrayed as having been built in a Yankee shipyard (and seen under construction by one of the Surprise crew). That being the case, the model you describe would be about spot on.
J
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So in the book the Royal Navy vessel is chasing down an American Navy veseel, or an American privateer?
Pat
<br />Great list of films.
BTW, on Master and Commander -- in the novel, the ship IS American, but Peter Weir probably thought that would hurt ticket sales here in the US of A. As much as I like faithful films, I can't fault that decision. However, in the film, the Frenchman is portrayed as having been built in a Yankee shipyard (and seen under construction by one of the Surprise crew). That being the case, the model you describe would be about spot on.
J
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So in the book the Royal Navy vessel is chasing down an American Navy veseel, or an American privateer?
Pat
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Pat Holscher
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Beck's list of movies is great.
On What Price Glory, I thought I'd note that was originally a silent film, and the James Cagney movie is a remake.
I've only seen bits of the silent movie, but the tone was significantly different. It was not quasi comedic, like the talking picture. Indeed, it was nearly an anti-war film (which I suppose all good war movies are in a way). A famous scene in it shows German shells landing nearly, and covering, a trench, killing everyone in it. I've seen that part, and it is really horrific even today, and it was shockingly horrifying at the time it was released.
Pat
On What Price Glory, I thought I'd note that was originally a silent film, and the James Cagney movie is a remake.
I've only seen bits of the silent movie, but the tone was significantly different. It was not quasi comedic, like the talking picture. Indeed, it was nearly an anti-war film (which I suppose all good war movies are in a way). A famous scene in it shows German shells landing nearly, and covering, a trench, killing everyone in it. I've seen that part, and it is really horrific even today, and it was shockingly horrifying at the time it was released.
Pat
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Joseph Sullivan
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Right. O'Brien had the British chasing an American. Wier avoided American backlash by making it a Frenchman. Of course, the British film audiences were doubtless just as happy with that substitution as well...
J
J
FYI - "hogging" describes a force on a ship's hull when weight of the bow and stern overload the midships structure. It bends the hull on both ends and "pushes" the center of the ship out of the water. The opposite is called "sagging".
Looks like 2 years of Naval Architecture at the University of New Orleans finally came in handy.
Stephen P. Wuensche
Captain, US Army
Field Artillery
"The guns! Thank God for the guns!" - Kipling
Looks like 2 years of Naval Architecture at the University of New Orleans finally came in handy.
Stephen P. Wuensche
Captain, US Army
Field Artillery
"The guns! Thank God for the guns!" - Kipling
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Beck
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JV Puleo</i>
<br />In the book its an American privateer . . .
Though I wonder how many of them were built to Constitution class standards. They would have been extremely expensive as a private undertaking.
JV Puleo
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
There were six frigates of the class..Constitution being the most famous. Also United States, President, Chesapeake, Constellation and Congress. 4 were supposed to be rated at 44 guns and 2 at 38 guns.
See Chart:
Rating Name Built Year Tons Cost
44 United States Philadelphia 1797 1576 $299,336
44 Constitution Boston 1797 1576 $302,718
44 President New York 1800 1576 $220,910
38 Constellation Baltimore 1797 1265 $314,212
38 Congress Portsmouth 1799 1268 $197,246
38* Chesapeake Norfolk 1799 1244 $220,677
* The fourth 44 gun frigate was modified by Josia Fox into the 38 gun Chesapeake.
Follow this link to a very good discussion on these ships.
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Alley ... upfrig.htm
Beck
<br />In the book its an American privateer . . .
Though I wonder how many of them were built to Constitution class standards. They would have been extremely expensive as a private undertaking.
JV Puleo
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
There were six frigates of the class..Constitution being the most famous. Also United States, President, Chesapeake, Constellation and Congress. 4 were supposed to be rated at 44 guns and 2 at 38 guns.
See Chart:
Rating Name Built Year Tons Cost
44 United States Philadelphia 1797 1576 $299,336
44 Constitution Boston 1797 1576 $302,718
44 President New York 1800 1576 $220,910
38 Constellation Baltimore 1797 1265 $314,212
38 Congress Portsmouth 1799 1268 $197,246
38* Chesapeake Norfolk 1799 1244 $220,677
* The fourth 44 gun frigate was modified by Josia Fox into the 38 gun Chesapeake.
Follow this link to a very good discussion on these ships.
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Alley ... upfrig.htm
Beck
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Pat Holscher
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On the Constitution type ship, wouldn't a ship of that type have been surprising for a privateer? As privateers were privately owned vessels, it seems unlikely, as it was pretty large and advanced for its day. But I am not at all familiar with ships, so I may well be wrong.
On privateers, it's interesting to note they were made legal by Letters of Marque and Reprisal. The same provision of the U.S. Constitution that allows Congress to declare war, also allows Congress to issue letters of marque and reprisal. Lincenses to steal, more or less.
After Al Queda attacked us on September 11th, I thought that the topic of letters of marque and reprisal made for sort of an intersting thing to think about, in sort of an oddly amusing way. Grant them to computer hackers, and let them go after Al Queda's bank accounts! But they were not as obscure as I thought, as one Congressman actually introduced a bill in Congress to issue letters of marque and reprisal to those who could go after Al Queda's finances. It didn't pass, but it is an interesting exercise to think of it.
Pat
On privateers, it's interesting to note they were made legal by Letters of Marque and Reprisal. The same provision of the U.S. Constitution that allows Congress to declare war, also allows Congress to issue letters of marque and reprisal. Lincenses to steal, more or less.
After Al Queda attacked us on September 11th, I thought that the topic of letters of marque and reprisal made for sort of an intersting thing to think about, in sort of an oddly amusing way. Grant them to computer hackers, and let them go after Al Queda's bank accounts! But they were not as obscure as I thought, as one Congressman actually introduced a bill in Congress to issue letters of marque and reprisal to those who could go after Al Queda's finances. It didn't pass, but it is an interesting exercise to think of it.
Pat
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Pat Holscher
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I missed The Great Raid while it was here. I'll have to catch it when it makes it to disk. I did enjoy the book it was based on.
On films enjoyable to watch, seeing as we've mentioned so many, I'll mention No Time For Sergeants. I can't recall if it was actually shown in theaters, or was a very early TV movie, but it's a minor classic. Andy Griffeth, in his pre Andy Griffeth Show days, plays an extremely naive Air Force enlisted man who aggravates his NCO. The scene where the toilet lids are wired to snap to attention is worth watching in and of itself.
Pat
On films enjoyable to watch, seeing as we've mentioned so many, I'll mention No Time For Sergeants. I can't recall if it was actually shown in theaters, or was a very early TV movie, but it's a minor classic. Andy Griffeth, in his pre Andy Griffeth Show days, plays an extremely naive Air Force enlisted man who aggravates his NCO. The scene where the toilet lids are wired to snap to attention is worth watching in and of itself.
Pat
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Joseph Sullivan
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No Time was shown in theatres, which is where I firs saw it.
J
J
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pat Holscher</i>
<br /> The scene where the toilet lids are wired to snap to attention is worth watching in and of itself.
Pat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">That, and the Three Stooges 'A Plumbing We Will Go', should be mandatory viewing for everyone!
Todd
<br /> The scene where the toilet lids are wired to snap to attention is worth watching in and of itself.
Pat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">That, and the Three Stooges 'A Plumbing We Will Go', should be mandatory viewing for everyone!
Todd
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Beck
The ship portrayed as the Acheron in Master and Commander, if a privateer, would be way too expensive for the time period to be non-government build and operated. This type of ship is almost a Ship of the Line, as the British tried to aver to explain the losses to them in the War of 1812. This is purely artistic license IMHO.
Other Good to excellent movies are:
The Guns of Navarone – 1961
Gregory Peck, Anthony Quinn, David Niven and one of my favorite actresses, Irene Pappas (the gorgeous dark hair and eyed Greek beauty who also starred in Z, also in Zorba the Greek and lately Captain Corelli’s Mandolin (which I haven’t seen) British commandos blowing up radar controlled German anti-ship guns in a mountain. Excellent special effects (Oscar winning) for the 1960s.
Halls of Montezuma – 1951
Richard Widmark, Karl Malden, Richard Boone way before his Paladin days. Marines on what is probably supposed to be Okinawa searching for hidden Japanese rockets. Some excellent psychological, what makes ‘em tick scenes.
The Hunters – 1958
Robert Mitchum, with Richard Egan and a young Robert Wagner flying F-86s in Korea. Mai Britt is the love interest.
Destination Tokyo – 1944
Cary Grant and John Garfield in submarines in Tokyo Bay.
Air Force -1943
John Garfield, Harry Carey and other Hollywood regulars in a B-17 that saw Pearl Harbor attack then later had to go to Manila. Well crafted by Howard hawks.
Objective Burma – 1945
Errol Flynn, George Tobias Henry Hull, Paratroops in Burma who have to walk out after destroying a Japanese radio base. Well done taut and well worth the $$ to buy.
Crash Dive – 1943
Tyrone Power (Jr), Dana Andrews, and one of my favorite curmudgeons, James Gleason, Also Anne Baxter one of the most beautiful of the 1940-1950 actresses and there were a ton of those lovelies! US submarine searching for secret Nazi base in the North Atlantic. Lots of fun and well made.
The Enemy Below – 1957
Robert Mitchum, Curt Jurgens as US Navy DE Commander vs German U-Boat commander. A superior film one of the best.
Destroyer – 1943
Edward G. Robinson, a re-tread navy CPO vs a very young Glenn Ford who has eyes for Edw G’s Daughter, Margaret Lindsey. They interact on a Destroyer, the John Paul Jones. Well made good mid war flicker.
Run Silent, Run Deep – 1958
Clark Gable, Burt Lancaster in a submarine in the Bungo Straits in WWII hunting Japanese shipping. A Superior film!
There were several army navy Marine movies made starring one of the best non-leading man leading men types ever, my favorite grumpy old cuss with a heart of gold of all time Wallace Berry. A very fine and accomplished silent era actor who moved into the talkies and became almost a character actor in Star status and made tons of movies, mostly for MGM. They weren’t especially accurate, were clearly propaganda in nature, but the made me feel good and were excellent entertainment. The Cavalry tie in here is The Bugle Sounds - 1942 a flick about horse cav changing to tanks.
Thanks for allowing me to ramble on some more.
Beck
Other Good to excellent movies are:
The Guns of Navarone – 1961
Gregory Peck, Anthony Quinn, David Niven and one of my favorite actresses, Irene Pappas (the gorgeous dark hair and eyed Greek beauty who also starred in Z, also in Zorba the Greek and lately Captain Corelli’s Mandolin (which I haven’t seen) British commandos blowing up radar controlled German anti-ship guns in a mountain. Excellent special effects (Oscar winning) for the 1960s.
Halls of Montezuma – 1951
Richard Widmark, Karl Malden, Richard Boone way before his Paladin days. Marines on what is probably supposed to be Okinawa searching for hidden Japanese rockets. Some excellent psychological, what makes ‘em tick scenes.
The Hunters – 1958
Robert Mitchum, with Richard Egan and a young Robert Wagner flying F-86s in Korea. Mai Britt is the love interest.
Destination Tokyo – 1944
Cary Grant and John Garfield in submarines in Tokyo Bay.
Air Force -1943
John Garfield, Harry Carey and other Hollywood regulars in a B-17 that saw Pearl Harbor attack then later had to go to Manila. Well crafted by Howard hawks.
Objective Burma – 1945
Errol Flynn, George Tobias Henry Hull, Paratroops in Burma who have to walk out after destroying a Japanese radio base. Well done taut and well worth the $$ to buy.
Crash Dive – 1943
Tyrone Power (Jr), Dana Andrews, and one of my favorite curmudgeons, James Gleason, Also Anne Baxter one of the most beautiful of the 1940-1950 actresses and there were a ton of those lovelies! US submarine searching for secret Nazi base in the North Atlantic. Lots of fun and well made.
The Enemy Below – 1957
Robert Mitchum, Curt Jurgens as US Navy DE Commander vs German U-Boat commander. A superior film one of the best.
Destroyer – 1943
Edward G. Robinson, a re-tread navy CPO vs a very young Glenn Ford who has eyes for Edw G’s Daughter, Margaret Lindsey. They interact on a Destroyer, the John Paul Jones. Well made good mid war flicker.
Run Silent, Run Deep – 1958
Clark Gable, Burt Lancaster in a submarine in the Bungo Straits in WWII hunting Japanese shipping. A Superior film!
There were several army navy Marine movies made starring one of the best non-leading man leading men types ever, my favorite grumpy old cuss with a heart of gold of all time Wallace Berry. A very fine and accomplished silent era actor who moved into the talkies and became almost a character actor in Star status and made tons of movies, mostly for MGM. They weren’t especially accurate, were clearly propaganda in nature, but the made me feel good and were excellent entertainment. The Cavalry tie in here is The Bugle Sounds - 1942 a flick about horse cav changing to tanks.
Thanks for allowing me to ramble on some more.
Beck
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Pat Holscher
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On Jeffrey's question, a treaty dating from the 1850s outlaws privateers as pirates. However, the US is not a signatory to it, and, as far as I know, the US can still issues letters of Marque and Reprisal. That would put us at odds with International conventions, and as early as the Civil War the US government issued some statements to the effect that it was no longer approved of. Of course, in the Civil War the Confederacy could and did take advantage of privateers, and the Federal government could not, so a person has to wonder about the purpose of such declarations.
One of the things that has happened in the long history of warfare is that, at certain points in history, certain types of warfare have become too expensive for civil societies to engage in. Its an interesting topic, but beyond the scope of the Forum. As just an example, however, private warfare was essentially outlawed in Europe during the late Medieval period when it concerned private grievances. That gave a boost to the already existant court system, as that's where the private grievances went.
Privateers are an example of this. At some point, it just became too expensive for everyone to allow it to continue.
But, Congress could, I think, still issue Letters of Marque and Reprisal. As odd as it sounds, they may actually be something that could have some merit, in an evolved form, in the modern struggle. Like bounty hunters, who operate on the fringe of the law, financial privateers could conceivably be of use in electronic and financial struggles.
Besides, it's amusing to think of some 18 year old kid hoisting the Jolly Roger over his computer and hacking into a Swiss Al Queda bank account.
Arrggg! Avast ye Scurvy Dogs!
Pat
One of the things that has happened in the long history of warfare is that, at certain points in history, certain types of warfare have become too expensive for civil societies to engage in. Its an interesting topic, but beyond the scope of the Forum. As just an example, however, private warfare was essentially outlawed in Europe during the late Medieval period when it concerned private grievances. That gave a boost to the already existant court system, as that's where the private grievances went.
Privateers are an example of this. At some point, it just became too expensive for everyone to allow it to continue.
But, Congress could, I think, still issue Letters of Marque and Reprisal. As odd as it sounds, they may actually be something that could have some merit, in an evolved form, in the modern struggle. Like bounty hunters, who operate on the fringe of the law, financial privateers could conceivably be of use in electronic and financial struggles.
Besides, it's amusing to think of some 18 year old kid hoisting the Jolly Roger over his computer and hacking into a Swiss Al Queda bank account.
Arrggg! Avast ye Scurvy Dogs!
Pat
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Pat Holscher
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On war films, I've found the reactions to various Vietnam War films, or even the ones that are mentioned, to be interesting.
Platoon has been mentioned several times, but nobody has admitted to liking it. I do like it, but I wouldn't assume tit was accurate history. Rather, it presents a certain mood. After all, it's Oliver Stone, which pretty much shows it isn't history.
On war films, I've found the reactions to various Vietnam War films, or even the ones that are mentioned, to be interesting.
Another has been Apocalypse Now. I saw that one (like Platoon) when it was in the theater in its first run. I liked it then, but don't care much for it now. It's a strange film. I still like the Air Cavalry assault however, it's just well filmed. It isn't history either, but oddly its one of those scenes that is so well known that you can find people claim to have witnessed scenes right out of the film. Any time I've been around a helicopter they were so darned loud that all I could hear was the helicopter, and yet I've read the Ride of the Valkeryes thing cite as fact. I doubt it very much, and if tried, it'd sound most like "whap, whap, whap, whap". Can't help but like Robert Duvall though (anyone catch the continuity error on the hats?)
(Continued)
Pat
Platoon has been mentioned several times, but nobody has admitted to liking it. I do like it, but I wouldn't assume tit was accurate history. Rather, it presents a certain mood. After all, it's Oliver Stone, which pretty much shows it isn't history.
On war films, I've found the reactions to various Vietnam War films, or even the ones that are mentioned, to be interesting.
Another has been Apocalypse Now. I saw that one (like Platoon) when it was in the theater in its first run. I liked it then, but don't care much for it now. It's a strange film. I still like the Air Cavalry assault however, it's just well filmed. It isn't history either, but oddly its one of those scenes that is so well known that you can find people claim to have witnessed scenes right out of the film. Any time I've been around a helicopter they were so darned loud that all I could hear was the helicopter, and yet I've read the Ride of the Valkeryes thing cite as fact. I doubt it very much, and if tried, it'd sound most like "whap, whap, whap, whap". Can't help but like Robert Duvall though (anyone catch the continuity error on the hats?)
(Continued)
Pat
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Pat Holscher
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{CONTINUED FROM POST ON PRIOR PAGE)
Nobody has mentioned Full Metal Jacket. I don't like that one at all, although the boot camp part is okay. It's almost identical to The Boys From Company C, which nobody remembers, but is generally a better film. The theme is extremely similar, and it lead to a lawsuit. R. Lee Emery even played the DI in both movies.
Hamburger Hill seems little remembered, although it tried to present an actual battle before We Were Soldiers did. I like both movies, although We Were Soldiers is disappointing in many ways. Hamburger Hill is in some also.
A horrible Vietnam War film in my opinion is The Green Berets. It's just a bad movie. I'd put The Deer Hunter in that category also. I've never even gotten into The Vietnam War in that one, the film is just too boring.
A good Vietnam War film, but one that is really obscure, is Go Tell The Spartans. It is a contemporary of Platoon, but filmed on a shoestring budget. I only just learned of it. It deals with the war in 1964, and is pretty good. Burt Lancaster is the lead character.
84CharlieMoPic is an interesting one, although full of errors.
Bat 21 is the only one I'm aware of that tried to present an Air Force centered story. Odd, given that the Air Force was so important in Vietnam.
The Killing Fields, about Cambodia, is in another class by itself.
Pat
Nobody has mentioned Full Metal Jacket. I don't like that one at all, although the boot camp part is okay. It's almost identical to The Boys From Company C, which nobody remembers, but is generally a better film. The theme is extremely similar, and it lead to a lawsuit. R. Lee Emery even played the DI in both movies.
Hamburger Hill seems little remembered, although it tried to present an actual battle before We Were Soldiers did. I like both movies, although We Were Soldiers is disappointing in many ways. Hamburger Hill is in some also.
A horrible Vietnam War film in my opinion is The Green Berets. It's just a bad movie. I'd put The Deer Hunter in that category also. I've never even gotten into The Vietnam War in that one, the film is just too boring.
A good Vietnam War film, but one that is really obscure, is Go Tell The Spartans. It is a contemporary of Platoon, but filmed on a shoestring budget. I only just learned of it. It deals with the war in 1964, and is pretty good. Burt Lancaster is the lead character.
84CharlieMoPic is an interesting one, although full of errors.
Bat 21 is the only one I'm aware of that tried to present an Air Force centered story. Odd, given that the Air Force was so important in Vietnam.
The Killing Fields, about Cambodia, is in another class by itself.
Pat
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throwback
we all got a hoot out of the green berets. like everyone, we had our own parody of the even sillier barry sadler song.