Interesting article on the Utah Army National Guard doing riot training. Part of the training is working with mounted police, or, in other words, getting out of the way of horses:
http://www.jfcom.mil/newslink/storyarch ... 020102.htm
And a somewhat confusing article on a Polish nature park with "Horse Guards". Apparently they are park police, but of a voluntary nature.
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/ph/pnp/rozt.htm
Pat
Mounted Police Today
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Pat Holscher
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Calling Jim Ottevaere: Thanks for explaining about the white Wrangler jeans now worn by most US polo players. Originally legend has it Levi Strauss made the first pair in canvas with copper riveted pockets for a prospector who would stuff heavy rocks & ore samples in his regular pants, continually ruining them! I guess cowboys found they could use them to ride in & their use spread world-wide. But unless Polo players are now riding western style with long stirrups & relaxed knee joints, I'd have thought even jeans with stretch material added might ruck up with lots of behind the knee wrinkles? Wearing them with a normal knee position of an English style polo saddle might be uncomfortable? Jeans explains why the riders now have sloppy legs going into boot tops, as opposed to the old sleek fitting breeches snug round lower calves & going cleanly into the riding boots! Just a thought, but I've yet to see a photo of a smart looking polo player! Sincerely, Grant.
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Grant</i>
<br />Calling Jim Ottevaere: Thanks for explaining about the white Wrangler jeans now worn by most US polo players. Originally legend has it Levi Strauss made the first pair in canvas with copper riveted pockets for a prospector who would stuff heavy rocks & ore samples in his regular pants, continually ruining them! I guess cowboys found they could use them to ride in & their use spread world-wide. But unless Polo players are now riding western style with long stirrups & relaxed knee joints, I'd have thought even jeans with stretch material added might ruck up with lots of behind the knee wrinkles? Wearing them with a normal knee position of an English style polo saddle might be uncomfortable? Jeans explains why the riders now have sloppy legs going into boot tops, as opposed to the old sleek fitting breeches snug round lower calves & going cleanly into the riding boots! Just a thought, but I've yet to see a photo of a smart looking polo player! Sincerely, Grant.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
If found that item to be quite interesting as well, and it surprised me that polo players wear Wranglers.
As a minor aside, I'd note that Wranglers, which are very popular with cowboys and Western folks hereabouts, are of course not a Levi product, but a product of a seperate company. The Wranger that is worn by riders is, generally, the 13MWZ.
Levi Strauss really did make the first pair of his canvas pants for a miner. If I recall correctly, his business in San Francisco started up as a tent manufacturer. The details of Levi use by cowhands is detailed in "I See By You Outfit", but I cannot go retreive my copy as I'd wake up a small child to gain access to it. Recalling it off hand, and therefore perhaps with some errors, the ones worn by cowhands really are the 501 ones, although the 501s have undergone some modifications over the past century. 501s have always featured rivets, as they do now, but at one time had a rivet on the lower fly which was removed when it was found that those hunched around campfires experienced frieghtening local heating in that area.
Amongst those who wear 13MWZs, they tend to be well liked, and favored over 501s for western riding. 13MWZs feature some things which are better for riders, and I believe are specifically designed with riding in mind. For example, the rear pockets are higher than on 501s, and the rivets are correspondingly higher (and a wallet, if carried while riding, which I do not, is also higher). On at least a western saddle, and probably any saddle, these are good features.
Some cowhands do wear 501s however. I do, and prefer them over 13MWZs. This is because 13MWZs do not fit me well, due to my less than svelt makeup.
Anyhow, the older movie image of cowhands wearing Levis in the 19th Century West is generally inaccurate. Most of the time they wore something else. At least up here, in the 19th Century, they were typically wearing wool trousers, not cotton ones. Russell paintings show this quite well, and often depict the trousers with leather seats sewn in. Jeans came on later in the 20th Century.
Well, I won't attempt to address the rest of your points, not being versed well enough in the other alternatives, such as the traditional breeches, to be able to address them. Indeed, I no doubt have not done well in addressing that which I did. It surprises me that white breeches have not remained the dominant pants for polo, as I would have guessed that breeches are generally preferable for a person who will be exclusively in the saddle, keeping in mind that I'm a pretty rustic rider at best, do not have the skills that would approach that necessary for polo, and I've never worn breeches.
Relating it back to a military topic, it is interesting to note that the stable uniform of the late 19th Century (white and then duck), which was used as an unofficial field uniform by some troops in the Southwest, and was also used by some troops in the same fashion in the Spanish American War, strongly recalls today's Carhartts. Not an ideal riding pants by any means, but it must have been regarded as preferable to being hot.
Pat
<br />Calling Jim Ottevaere: Thanks for explaining about the white Wrangler jeans now worn by most US polo players. Originally legend has it Levi Strauss made the first pair in canvas with copper riveted pockets for a prospector who would stuff heavy rocks & ore samples in his regular pants, continually ruining them! I guess cowboys found they could use them to ride in & their use spread world-wide. But unless Polo players are now riding western style with long stirrups & relaxed knee joints, I'd have thought even jeans with stretch material added might ruck up with lots of behind the knee wrinkles? Wearing them with a normal knee position of an English style polo saddle might be uncomfortable? Jeans explains why the riders now have sloppy legs going into boot tops, as opposed to the old sleek fitting breeches snug round lower calves & going cleanly into the riding boots! Just a thought, but I've yet to see a photo of a smart looking polo player! Sincerely, Grant.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
If found that item to be quite interesting as well, and it surprised me that polo players wear Wranglers.
As a minor aside, I'd note that Wranglers, which are very popular with cowboys and Western folks hereabouts, are of course not a Levi product, but a product of a seperate company. The Wranger that is worn by riders is, generally, the 13MWZ.
Levi Strauss really did make the first pair of his canvas pants for a miner. If I recall correctly, his business in San Francisco started up as a tent manufacturer. The details of Levi use by cowhands is detailed in "I See By You Outfit", but I cannot go retreive my copy as I'd wake up a small child to gain access to it. Recalling it off hand, and therefore perhaps with some errors, the ones worn by cowhands really are the 501 ones, although the 501s have undergone some modifications over the past century. 501s have always featured rivets, as they do now, but at one time had a rivet on the lower fly which was removed when it was found that those hunched around campfires experienced frieghtening local heating in that area.
Amongst those who wear 13MWZs, they tend to be well liked, and favored over 501s for western riding. 13MWZs feature some things which are better for riders, and I believe are specifically designed with riding in mind. For example, the rear pockets are higher than on 501s, and the rivets are correspondingly higher (and a wallet, if carried while riding, which I do not, is also higher). On at least a western saddle, and probably any saddle, these are good features.
Some cowhands do wear 501s however. I do, and prefer them over 13MWZs. This is because 13MWZs do not fit me well, due to my less than svelt makeup.
Anyhow, the older movie image of cowhands wearing Levis in the 19th Century West is generally inaccurate. Most of the time they wore something else. At least up here, in the 19th Century, they were typically wearing wool trousers, not cotton ones. Russell paintings show this quite well, and often depict the trousers with leather seats sewn in. Jeans came on later in the 20th Century.
Well, I won't attempt to address the rest of your points, not being versed well enough in the other alternatives, such as the traditional breeches, to be able to address them. Indeed, I no doubt have not done well in addressing that which I did. It surprises me that white breeches have not remained the dominant pants for polo, as I would have guessed that breeches are generally preferable for a person who will be exclusively in the saddle, keeping in mind that I'm a pretty rustic rider at best, do not have the skills that would approach that necessary for polo, and I've never worn breeches.
Relating it back to a military topic, it is interesting to note that the stable uniform of the late 19th Century (white and then duck), which was used as an unofficial field uniform by some troops in the Southwest, and was also used by some troops in the same fashion in the Spanish American War, strongly recalls today's Carhartts. Not an ideal riding pants by any means, but it must have been regarded as preferable to being hot.
Pat
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pat Holscher</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim Ottevaere</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Grant</i>
[Witness the rotten loose trouser-like ones worn by international polo teams & nylon shapeless ones worn by jockeys! At one time correct breeks were "de riguer" for all serious riders! Cheers, Grant.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
As a former, and long time polo player, the "breeches" worn by about 90% of the players here in the U.S. are not breeches at all, but white Wrangler jeans. They wear better than expensive breeches, are more comfortable when playing sometimes 12 or more chukkars in the southern heat, and are about 20% of the cost of a good pair of polo breeches. Not surprising, the trend for these jeans started in Texas and the South West circuit about 20 years ago and moved to the high goal international circuit in Florida. Now just about all the players wear them. It took some of us old timer traditionalists a while to catch on, but all things change, except for the flimsy helmet players still wear.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
A while back while looking for a pair of new cowboy boots I noted that some polo boots have a distinctly western look to them. I wonder if this is also something that spread from the Southwest and Texas in to the game?
Pat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dear Pat:
As a sidelined polo player (herniated disc--but hey I scored a goal ;-0!!) I can comment on the boots. A lot of polo boots resemble the 19th century style tall western boots; they have a traditional western foot shape with reinforced sole and a deep heel. Ideally it is better to have your foot balanced on the ball as one hopefully does in most riding events, however in polo sometimes it is safer riding "all the way home" especially in situations where you are off balance trying to take a shot at 30 mph!!! The deep heel is ideal for this and gives you better security than what you get with an English heel. The Argentine boot has an English foot with an anterior placed zipper and a western style spur like leather strap which is attached to the boot and protects the zipper. The heel on this boot is English style and is not as deep. My own personal boots have a western foot, with side placed velcro straps overlying a padded outer leg to cushion blows from balls, horses, other boots, etc...you get the picture. They are very comfortable and easy to get in and out of with the side straps.
With regard to the wrangler white jeans I would concur that 90% of US polo players wear these with some folks occasionally wearing bombachas which are quite comfortable too ( I own a couple of pair). You still see breeches but mostly on Europeans who are playing the game. Most of the Argies and other South Americans go with the wranglers or bombachas.
Anita L. Henderson
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim Ottevaere</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Grant</i>
[Witness the rotten loose trouser-like ones worn by international polo teams & nylon shapeless ones worn by jockeys! At one time correct breeks were "de riguer" for all serious riders! Cheers, Grant.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
As a former, and long time polo player, the "breeches" worn by about 90% of the players here in the U.S. are not breeches at all, but white Wrangler jeans. They wear better than expensive breeches, are more comfortable when playing sometimes 12 or more chukkars in the southern heat, and are about 20% of the cost of a good pair of polo breeches. Not surprising, the trend for these jeans started in Texas and the South West circuit about 20 years ago and moved to the high goal international circuit in Florida. Now just about all the players wear them. It took some of us old timer traditionalists a while to catch on, but all things change, except for the flimsy helmet players still wear.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
A while back while looking for a pair of new cowboy boots I noted that some polo boots have a distinctly western look to them. I wonder if this is also something that spread from the Southwest and Texas in to the game?
Pat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dear Pat:
As a sidelined polo player (herniated disc--but hey I scored a goal ;-0!!) I can comment on the boots. A lot of polo boots resemble the 19th century style tall western boots; they have a traditional western foot shape with reinforced sole and a deep heel. Ideally it is better to have your foot balanced on the ball as one hopefully does in most riding events, however in polo sometimes it is safer riding "all the way home" especially in situations where you are off balance trying to take a shot at 30 mph!!! The deep heel is ideal for this and gives you better security than what you get with an English heel. The Argentine boot has an English foot with an anterior placed zipper and a western style spur like leather strap which is attached to the boot and protects the zipper. The heel on this boot is English style and is not as deep. My own personal boots have a western foot, with side placed velcro straps overlying a padded outer leg to cushion blows from balls, horses, other boots, etc...you get the picture. They are very comfortable and easy to get in and out of with the side straps.
With regard to the wrangler white jeans I would concur that 90% of US polo players wear these with some folks occasionally wearing bombachas which are quite comfortable too ( I own a couple of pair). You still see breeches but mostly on Europeans who are playing the game. Most of the Argies and other South Americans go with the wranglers or bombachas.
Anita L. Henderson
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kelton Oliver</i>
<br />Jim, how does a polo saddle differ from an all-purpose saddle? I've never examined one, but from the photos they don't look much different.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dear Kelton:
Polo saddles have a very prominent cantle and a very deep seat but are close contact in contrast to the all purpose saddle. NO knee roles on these babies as they prevent you from pivoting properly when you are about to take a shot. Polo is an incredibly aerobic activity and you sweat profusely thru all your clothes including your pants. For this reason, a lot of polo saddles are made out of roughed out suede on the seats and sometimes the flaps. The suede helps keep you from slipping and sliding which happens when you ride in a leather saddle. In additon the stirrup leathers are made of buffalo hide rather than regular leather as they don't break as easily.
Anita L. Henderson
<br />Jim, how does a polo saddle differ from an all-purpose saddle? I've never examined one, but from the photos they don't look much different.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dear Kelton:
Polo saddles have a very prominent cantle and a very deep seat but are close contact in contrast to the all purpose saddle. NO knee roles on these babies as they prevent you from pivoting properly when you are about to take a shot. Polo is an incredibly aerobic activity and you sweat profusely thru all your clothes including your pants. For this reason, a lot of polo saddles are made out of roughed out suede on the seats and sometimes the flaps. The suede helps keep you from slipping and sliding which happens when you ride in a leather saddle. In additon the stirrup leathers are made of buffalo hide rather than regular leather as they don't break as easily.
Anita L. Henderson
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Anita</i>
<br />As a sidelined polo player (herniated disc--but hey I scored a goal ;-0!!) I can comment on the boots. A lot of polo boots resemble the 19th century style tall western boots; they have a traditional western foot shape with reinforced sole and a deep heel. Ideally it is better to have your foot balanced on the ball as one hopefully does in most riding events, however in polo sometimes it is safer riding "all the way home" especially in situations where you are off balance trying to take a shot at 30 mph!!! The deep heel is ideal for this and gives you better security than what you get with an English heel. The Argentine boot has an English foot with an anterior placed zipper and a western style spur like leather strap which is attached to the boot and protects the zipper. The heel on this boot is English style and is not as deep. My own personal boots have a western foot, with side placed velcro straps overlying a padded outer leg to cushion blows from balls, horses, other boots, etc...you get the picture. They are very comfortable and easy to get in and out of with the side straps.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Best wishes for a speedy recovery. I suspect you'll be on the sidelines for awhile.
I'd noted those western looking polo boots awhile back when I was searching for new cowboy boots. Somebody recommended those to me, which isn't what I bought, but I was quite surprised to see that some polo players wear a boot that so strongly resembles a high shaft western boot. In reading this thread, I wonder if they also didn't grow out of a western region, like the white Wrangers?
As a minor addition, the high shaft western boot is not restricted to the 19th Century, although it was used in the scalloped form we see today as least as early as the 1880s, according to the authors of "I See By Your Outfit.". The stovepipe topped cowboy boot, much less common today, was around at least as early as the 1870s. The high top boot has continued on ever since, and is still often worn by working hands today. The height of cowboy boots, of course, goes up and down as a matter of fashion, particularly because most of them are bought by people who do not ride, but the high boot has stuck around and keeps seeing actual riding use. While there are certainly changes, a pair of high topped ones from 1893 and 2003 would both be recognizable as closely related. I myself have worn 18", and even 19" topped boots for a long time.
What has noticably changed in recent years has been heel height for high shafted cowboy boots. For eons I wore a 18" topped mule boot with medium high heels. When they died a couple of years ago I found to my distress I couldn't get them from the same manufacturer anymore, even though when I called the factory with the catalog number for the boot they told me how popular they had been. "Nope, don't make them." Instead, in the intervening years, the "buckaroo" style boot with the super high heel, and spur guard and shelf, had taken over. I'd bought an early heavy duty pair of those when they first became popular and hated them, so I ended up having to special order a pair of mule hide boots with a specified heel height (and 19" shafts) from a different manufacturer. To make a long, and dull, story short, while I like my new boots a lot, in the period it took to get them I ended up wearing my old buckaroo boots for riding and found that I now like them. Go figure.
There's actually a fair amount of text on early cowboy boots, but I wonder how much any of it is correct. I have a photograph in a book around here of a Civil War officer wearing a pair of boots with high Cuban heels, Mexican spurs, and wide spur straps like many western riders use. They look a lot like cowboy boots, which is what I'd call them if I saw them, but this would predate the supposed introduction of them.
Pat
<br />As a sidelined polo player (herniated disc--but hey I scored a goal ;-0!!) I can comment on the boots. A lot of polo boots resemble the 19th century style tall western boots; they have a traditional western foot shape with reinforced sole and a deep heel. Ideally it is better to have your foot balanced on the ball as one hopefully does in most riding events, however in polo sometimes it is safer riding "all the way home" especially in situations where you are off balance trying to take a shot at 30 mph!!! The deep heel is ideal for this and gives you better security than what you get with an English heel. The Argentine boot has an English foot with an anterior placed zipper and a western style spur like leather strap which is attached to the boot and protects the zipper. The heel on this boot is English style and is not as deep. My own personal boots have a western foot, with side placed velcro straps overlying a padded outer leg to cushion blows from balls, horses, other boots, etc...you get the picture. They are very comfortable and easy to get in and out of with the side straps.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Best wishes for a speedy recovery. I suspect you'll be on the sidelines for awhile.
I'd noted those western looking polo boots awhile back when I was searching for new cowboy boots. Somebody recommended those to me, which isn't what I bought, but I was quite surprised to see that some polo players wear a boot that so strongly resembles a high shaft western boot. In reading this thread, I wonder if they also didn't grow out of a western region, like the white Wrangers?
As a minor addition, the high shaft western boot is not restricted to the 19th Century, although it was used in the scalloped form we see today as least as early as the 1880s, according to the authors of "I See By Your Outfit.". The stovepipe topped cowboy boot, much less common today, was around at least as early as the 1870s. The high top boot has continued on ever since, and is still often worn by working hands today. The height of cowboy boots, of course, goes up and down as a matter of fashion, particularly because most of them are bought by people who do not ride, but the high boot has stuck around and keeps seeing actual riding use. While there are certainly changes, a pair of high topped ones from 1893 and 2003 would both be recognizable as closely related. I myself have worn 18", and even 19" topped boots for a long time.
What has noticably changed in recent years has been heel height for high shafted cowboy boots. For eons I wore a 18" topped mule boot with medium high heels. When they died a couple of years ago I found to my distress I couldn't get them from the same manufacturer anymore, even though when I called the factory with the catalog number for the boot they told me how popular they had been. "Nope, don't make them." Instead, in the intervening years, the "buckaroo" style boot with the super high heel, and spur guard and shelf, had taken over. I'd bought an early heavy duty pair of those when they first became popular and hated them, so I ended up having to special order a pair of mule hide boots with a specified heel height (and 19" shafts) from a different manufacturer. To make a long, and dull, story short, while I like my new boots a lot, in the period it took to get them I ended up wearing my old buckaroo boots for riding and found that I now like them. Go figure.
There's actually a fair amount of text on early cowboy boots, but I wonder how much any of it is correct. I have a photograph in a book around here of a Civil War officer wearing a pair of boots with high Cuban heels, Mexican spurs, and wide spur straps like many western riders use. They look a lot like cowboy boots, which is what I'd call them if I saw them, but this would predate the supposed introduction of them.
Pat
Pat, as a "round" person I find the 31MZW (relaxed fit cowboy cut) Wranglers to be quite comfortable for most things. Being frugal, I buy the rigid indigo model for $18-19 the pair, depending on who has them on sale (Shepplers, Drysdales, etc.).
Boot wise, I have large, flat feet with one being just over 11E and other being just under 12E. For many years I have had to "bite the bullet" and get boots custom made. I did recently find a pair of lace up Ariats that were comfortable, but that's a rare occurence.
The most comfortable riding pants I have are the WWII Impressions reproduction cavalry breeches. I hope to add a third pair when Santa comes to call![:)]
Bill Kambic
Boot wise, I have large, flat feet with one being just over 11E and other being just under 12E. For many years I have had to "bite the bullet" and get boots custom made. I did recently find a pair of lace up Ariats that were comfortable, but that's a rare occurence.
The most comfortable riding pants I have are the WWII Impressions reproduction cavalry breeches. I hope to add a third pair when Santa comes to call![:)]
Bill Kambic
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pat Holscher</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Anita</i>
<br />As a sidelined polo player (herniated disc--but hey I scored a goal ;-0!!) I can comment on the boots. A lot of polo boots resemble the 19th century style tall western boots; they have a traditional western foot shape with reinforced sole and a deep heel. Ideally it is better to have your foot balanced on the ball as one hopefully does in most riding events, however in polo sometimes it is safer riding "all the way home" especially in situations where you are off balance trying to take a shot at 30 mph!!! The deep heel is ideal for this and gives you better security than what you get with an English heel. The Argentine boot has an English foot with an anterior placed zipper and a western style spur like leather strap which is attached to the boot and protects the zipper. The heel on this boot is English style and is not as deep. My own personal boots have a western foot, with side placed velcro straps overlying a padded outer leg to cushion blows from balls, horses, other boots, etc...you get the picture. They are very comfortable and easy to get in and out of with the side straps.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Best wishes for a speedy recovery. I suspect you'll be on the sidelines for awhile.
I'd noted those western looking polo boots awhile back when I was searching for new cowboy boots. Somebody recommended those to me, which isn't what I bought, but I was quite surprised to see that some polo players wear a boot that so strongly resembles a high shaft western boot. In reading this thread, I wonder if they also didn't grow out of a western region, like the white Wrangers?
As a minor addition, the high shaft western boot is not restricted to the 19th Century, although it was used in the scalloped form we see today as least as early as the 1880s, according to the authors of "I See By Your Outfit.". The stovepipe topped cowboy boot, much less common today, was around at least as early as the 1870s. The high top boot has continued on ever since, and is still often worn by working hands today. The height of cowboy boots, of course, goes up and down as a matter of fashion, particularly because most of them are bought by people who do not ride, but the high boot has stuck around and keeps seeing actual riding use. While there are certainly changes, a pair of high topped ones from 1893 and 2003 would both be recognizable as closely related. I myself have worn 18", and even 19" topped boots for a long time.
What has noticably changed in recent years has been heel height for high shafted cowboy boots. For eons I wore a 18" topped mule boot with medium high heels. When they died a couple of years ago I found to my distress I couldn't get them from the same manufacturer anymore, even though when I called the factory with the catalog number for the boot they told me how popular they had been. "Nope, don't make them." Instead, in the intervening years, the "buckaroo" style boot with the super high heel, and spur guard and shelf, had taken over. I'd bought an early heavy duty pair of those when they first became popular and hated them, so I ended up having to special order a pair of mule hide boots with a specified heel height (and 19" shafts) from a different manufacturer. To make a long, and dull, story short, while I like my new boots a lot, in the period it took to get them I ended up wearing my old buckaroo boots for riding and found that I now like them. Go figure.
There's actually a fair amount of text on early cowboy boots, but I wonder how much any of it is correct. I have a photograph in a book around here of a Civil War officer wearing a pair of boots with high Cuban heels, Mexican spurs, and wide spur straps like many western riders use. They look a lot like cowboy boots, which is what I'd call them if I saw them, but this would predate the supposed introduction of them.
Pat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dear Pat:
I am sorry I omitted that my injury from polo occurred 13 years ago! I have recovered but I am still trying to lose the excess weight of 100 lbs I put on from the one year convalescens and inactivity before I retake the field again. I have lost 50 of the 100 lbs but have been having a time trying to get the rest off.
(! I enjoyed your discussion of the 19th century high top boots that the western footed polo boot resembles. I imagine that this boot did evolve out of western polo players who preferred a western footed boot to the English one. I definitely would concur with their opinion as I do feel it gives you a more secure foot position when playing.
Anita
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Anita</i>
<br />As a sidelined polo player (herniated disc--but hey I scored a goal ;-0!!) I can comment on the boots. A lot of polo boots resemble the 19th century style tall western boots; they have a traditional western foot shape with reinforced sole and a deep heel. Ideally it is better to have your foot balanced on the ball as one hopefully does in most riding events, however in polo sometimes it is safer riding "all the way home" especially in situations where you are off balance trying to take a shot at 30 mph!!! The deep heel is ideal for this and gives you better security than what you get with an English heel. The Argentine boot has an English foot with an anterior placed zipper and a western style spur like leather strap which is attached to the boot and protects the zipper. The heel on this boot is English style and is not as deep. My own personal boots have a western foot, with side placed velcro straps overlying a padded outer leg to cushion blows from balls, horses, other boots, etc...you get the picture. They are very comfortable and easy to get in and out of with the side straps.
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Best wishes for a speedy recovery. I suspect you'll be on the sidelines for awhile.
I'd noted those western looking polo boots awhile back when I was searching for new cowboy boots. Somebody recommended those to me, which isn't what I bought, but I was quite surprised to see that some polo players wear a boot that so strongly resembles a high shaft western boot. In reading this thread, I wonder if they also didn't grow out of a western region, like the white Wrangers?
As a minor addition, the high shaft western boot is not restricted to the 19th Century, although it was used in the scalloped form we see today as least as early as the 1880s, according to the authors of "I See By Your Outfit.". The stovepipe topped cowboy boot, much less common today, was around at least as early as the 1870s. The high top boot has continued on ever since, and is still often worn by working hands today. The height of cowboy boots, of course, goes up and down as a matter of fashion, particularly because most of them are bought by people who do not ride, but the high boot has stuck around and keeps seeing actual riding use. While there are certainly changes, a pair of high topped ones from 1893 and 2003 would both be recognizable as closely related. I myself have worn 18", and even 19" topped boots for a long time.
What has noticably changed in recent years has been heel height for high shafted cowboy boots. For eons I wore a 18" topped mule boot with medium high heels. When they died a couple of years ago I found to my distress I couldn't get them from the same manufacturer anymore, even though when I called the factory with the catalog number for the boot they told me how popular they had been. "Nope, don't make them." Instead, in the intervening years, the "buckaroo" style boot with the super high heel, and spur guard and shelf, had taken over. I'd bought an early heavy duty pair of those when they first became popular and hated them, so I ended up having to special order a pair of mule hide boots with a specified heel height (and 19" shafts) from a different manufacturer. To make a long, and dull, story short, while I like my new boots a lot, in the period it took to get them I ended up wearing my old buckaroo boots for riding and found that I now like them. Go figure.
There's actually a fair amount of text on early cowboy boots, but I wonder how much any of it is correct. I have a photograph in a book around here of a Civil War officer wearing a pair of boots with high Cuban heels, Mexican spurs, and wide spur straps like many western riders use. They look a lot like cowboy boots, which is what I'd call them if I saw them, but this would predate the supposed introduction of them.
Pat
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Dear Pat:
I am sorry I omitted that my injury from polo occurred 13 years ago! I have recovered but I am still trying to lose the excess weight of 100 lbs I put on from the one year convalescens and inactivity before I retake the field again. I have lost 50 of the 100 lbs but have been having a time trying to get the rest off.
(! I enjoyed your discussion of the 19th century high top boots that the western footed polo boot resembles. I imagine that this boot did evolve out of western polo players who preferred a western footed boot to the English one. I definitely would concur with their opinion as I do feel it gives you a more secure foot position when playing.Anita
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Philip S
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I wonder if, instead, it came from the South American (esp. Argentine) players.I imagine that this boot did evolve out of western polo players who preferred a western footed boot to the English one.
Anita
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Anita</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kelton Oliver</i>
<br />Jim, how does a polo saddle differ from an all-purpose saddle? I've never examined one, but from the photos they don't look much different.
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Dear Kelton:
Polo saddles have a very prominent cantle and a very deep seat but are close contact in contrast to the all purpose saddle. NO knee roles on these babies as they prevent you from pivoting properly when you are about to take a shot. Polo is an incredibly aerobic activity and you sweat profusely thru all your clothes including your pants. For this reason, a lot of polo saddles are made out of roughed out suede on the seats and sometimes the flaps. The suede helps keep you from slipping and sliding which happens when you ride in a leather saddle. In additon the stirrup leathers are made of buffalo hide rather than regular leather as they don't break as easily.
Anita L. Henderson
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Ditto on the saddle description, although there are a number of variations based on personal preferences they all pretty much follow the pattern described above. Regarding boots. There are three patterns that seem to dominate the game here in south Florida, where we have players from all over the U.S. and world. The most popular is the full zippered front with english last and heel. The second is an english last with side opening full flap, either with velcro or strap closure. The velcro closure being more popular. The third is the high (14-16 in)western style with a stacked heel and slightly pointed toe. I have worn all three patterns over the years, but prefer the side opening full flap style because they are easilly adjusted for fit over any style of breeches or jeans. Many of the best polo boots seem to come from Argentina and England, but excellent boots are made here and elsewhere. Custom made polo boots generally cost $1200-1800, but ready made stock polo boots in any of the three styles can be had for about $500-650. Preferred colors seem to be english tan and medium oxblood.
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kelton Oliver</i>
<br />Jim, how does a polo saddle differ from an all-purpose saddle? I've never examined one, but from the photos they don't look much different.
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Dear Kelton:
Polo saddles have a very prominent cantle and a very deep seat but are close contact in contrast to the all purpose saddle. NO knee roles on these babies as they prevent you from pivoting properly when you are about to take a shot. Polo is an incredibly aerobic activity and you sweat profusely thru all your clothes including your pants. For this reason, a lot of polo saddles are made out of roughed out suede on the seats and sometimes the flaps. The suede helps keep you from slipping and sliding which happens when you ride in a leather saddle. In additon the stirrup leathers are made of buffalo hide rather than regular leather as they don't break as easily.
Anita L. Henderson
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Ditto on the saddle description, although there are a number of variations based on personal preferences they all pretty much follow the pattern described above. Regarding boots. There are three patterns that seem to dominate the game here in south Florida, where we have players from all over the U.S. and world. The most popular is the full zippered front with english last and heel. The second is an english last with side opening full flap, either with velcro or strap closure. The velcro closure being more popular. The third is the high (14-16 in)western style with a stacked heel and slightly pointed toe. I have worn all three patterns over the years, but prefer the side opening full flap style because they are easilly adjusted for fit over any style of breeches or jeans. Many of the best polo boots seem to come from Argentina and England, but excellent boots are made here and elsewhere. Custom made polo boots generally cost $1200-1800, but ready made stock polo boots in any of the three styles can be had for about $500-650. Preferred colors seem to be english tan and medium oxblood.
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Philip S</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I imagine that this boot did evolve out of western polo players who preferred a western footed boot to the English one.
Anita
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I wonder if, instead, it came from the South American (esp. Argentine) players.
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Looking around a bit on on line catalogs, it appears that the western looking polo boots, at least to the eye, do not vary much from the standard high western boot. Indeed, in looking around I found a set with 19" high tops and a reasonable heel that didn't vary all that much from the last boots I ordered, and Olathe apparently offers a "polo boot" that doesn't vary hardly at all from the mule cowboy boot I have from them. So, I suspect this is just an adaptation of the high top cowboy boot.
The catalogs also have a style of polo boot which is identified as Argentinian, and which has enclosure system Jim mentions in his post. I'm so unfamiliar with polo boots that I won't try to describe it beyond that, as I'd no doubt mess it up.
I take it polo must be a major sport in Argentina?
Pat
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I imagine that this boot did evolve out of western polo players who preferred a western footed boot to the English one.
Anita
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I wonder if, instead, it came from the South American (esp. Argentine) players.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Looking around a bit on on line catalogs, it appears that the western looking polo boots, at least to the eye, do not vary much from the standard high western boot. Indeed, in looking around I found a set with 19" high tops and a reasonable heel that didn't vary all that much from the last boots I ordered, and Olathe apparently offers a "polo boot" that doesn't vary hardly at all from the mule cowboy boot I have from them. So, I suspect this is just an adaptation of the high top cowboy boot.
The catalogs also have a style of polo boot which is identified as Argentinian, and which has enclosure system Jim mentions in his post. I'm so unfamiliar with polo boots that I won't try to describe it beyond that, as I'd no doubt mess it up.
I take it polo must be a major sport in Argentina?
Pat
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Pat Holscher
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I saw in an interesting Associated Press photograph in the paper a couple of days ago, taken on the occasion of the recent Russian election. It depicted two Russian mounted policemen in Moscow, in a light snow storm. Unfortunately the photo was so small that the detail wasn't very good. They were in winter gear, and it would have been interesting to see the details on it.
Pat
Pat
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Pat Holscher
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My godfather wore levi's exclusively, and wore only those with a button fly....."a zipper's the sorriest thing ever to show up on a pair of man's pants...." I don't care to speculate what tragedy led him to that conclusion.
Wranglers also feature a flat inseam, unlike the Levi's 4-layer French lap seam; much more comfortable on a long ride. I wear 13mwzs just about exclusively, and even have camo pairs for hunting. They're just better-fitting for me, and last a lot longer than any other jeans I've tried.
Lately I've been wearing Wah-Maker cowboy pants, and just love them when riding. The lack of belt loops makes it a lot more comfortable to wear a gunbelt for long periods. One must get used to suspenders and higher waistline, however.
Wranglers also feature a flat inseam, unlike the Levi's 4-layer French lap seam; much more comfortable on a long ride. I wear 13mwzs just about exclusively, and even have camo pairs for hunting. They're just better-fitting for me, and last a lot longer than any other jeans I've tried.
Lately I've been wearing Wah-Maker cowboy pants, and just love them when riding. The lack of belt loops makes it a lot more comfortable to wear a gunbelt for long periods. One must get used to suspenders and higher waistline, however.
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Pat Holscher
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Not really a mounted police photo, but an unusual photo of a horse in a police ceremony.
Plano Texas Memorial Day ceremony, 2003
Riderless Horse
Pat
Plano Texas Memorial Day ceremony, 2003
Riderless Horse
Pat
Well this photo shows how to do it wrong.
A Caprisoned horse is to be black or dark bay, if it is any other color the Caparison cloth is to be worn, and that cloth is black with prescribed dimensions and adornments.
The saddle and tack and boots are to be black. The saddle cloth when used w/o a Caprasion cloth is to be black with a white border of 1 1/2 inches exposed. Everything is prescribed and should be followed, to do less is improper. This is a part of ceremony that should be done correctly or not at all.
There are more details but I will post those on a different thread.
Regards,
Ron Smith
A Caprisoned horse is to be black or dark bay, if it is any other color the Caparison cloth is to be worn, and that cloth is black with prescribed dimensions and adornments.
The saddle and tack and boots are to be black. The saddle cloth when used w/o a Caprasion cloth is to be black with a white border of 1 1/2 inches exposed. Everything is prescribed and should be followed, to do less is improper. This is a part of ceremony that should be done correctly or not at all.
There are more details but I will post those on a different thread.
Regards,
Ron Smith
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ron Smith</i>
<br />Well this photo shows how to do it wrong.
A Caprisoned horse is to be black or dark bay, if it is any other color the Caparison cloth is to be worn, and that cloth is black with prescribed dimensions and adornments.
The saddle and tack and boots are to be black. The saddle cloth when used w/o a Caprasion cloth is to be black with a white border of 1 1/2 inches exposed. Everything is prescribed and should be followed, to do less is improper. This is a part of ceremony that should be done correctly or not at all.
There are more details but I will post those on a different thread.
Regards,
Ron Smith
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Ron, if you want to start a new thread on it, I can move that photo down into it for reference.
Here's a couple of other recent police photos:
Chilean Policeman
This depicts a Chilean policeman taking a fall at a riot outside of the Chilean Congress. Perhaps Oscar might be able to provide some details? Note the plastic visor the horse is wearing.
Spanish Mounted Police
Spanish K-9 and Mounted police sporting what may arguably be the ugliest mounted police uniform currently in use. Sorry for the saratorial comment.
Pat
<br />Well this photo shows how to do it wrong.
A Caprisoned horse is to be black or dark bay, if it is any other color the Caparison cloth is to be worn, and that cloth is black with prescribed dimensions and adornments.
The saddle and tack and boots are to be black. The saddle cloth when used w/o a Caprasion cloth is to be black with a white border of 1 1/2 inches exposed. Everything is prescribed and should be followed, to do less is improper. This is a part of ceremony that should be done correctly or not at all.
There are more details but I will post those on a different thread.
Regards,
Ron Smith
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ron, if you want to start a new thread on it, I can move that photo down into it for reference.
Here's a couple of other recent police photos:
Chilean Policeman
This depicts a Chilean policeman taking a fall at a riot outside of the Chilean Congress. Perhaps Oscar might be able to provide some details? Note the plastic visor the horse is wearing.
Spanish Mounted Police
Spanish K-9 and Mounted police sporting what may arguably be the ugliest mounted police uniform currently in use. Sorry for the saratorial comment.
Pat
Hi all, may I suggest you this link? Unfortunately its in Italian only, maybe by navigating the site you'll find also an english version.
http://www.carabinieri.it/arma/curiosit ... ilmati.htm
interesting exerpts of the Carabinieri-carousell. Anyway the uniform thay wear in ordinary mounted service are less pictoresque...
Regards
Luigi
Luigi
http://www.carabinieri.it/arma/curiosit ... ilmati.htm
interesting exerpts of the Carabinieri-carousell. Anyway the uniform thay wear in ordinary mounted service are less pictoresque...
Regards
Luigi
Luigi
Italian Websites? No Problemo!!!!!!!!!!!![:)]
Go to either http://www.freetranslation.com/web.htm or
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
There may be others but I have not used them.
Thanks for the interesting link!
Bill Kambic
Go to either http://www.freetranslation.com/web.htm or
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
There may be others but I have not used them.
Thanks for the interesting link!
Bill Kambic
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by luigi</i>
<br />Hi all, may I suggest you this link? Unfortunately its in Italian only, maybe by navigating the site you'll find also an english version.
http://www.carabinieri.it/arma/curiosit ... ilmati.htm
interesting exerpts of the Carabinieri-carousell. Anyway the uniform thay wear in ordinary mounted service are less pictoresque...
Regards
Luigi
Luigi
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That is a neat website. I wasn't aware that any bart of the Carabinieri were mounted. I take it they must have a cermonial unit, like the RCMP.
Pat
<br />Hi all, may I suggest you this link? Unfortunately its in Italian only, maybe by navigating the site you'll find also an english version.
http://www.carabinieri.it/arma/curiosit ... ilmati.htm
interesting exerpts of the Carabinieri-carousell. Anyway the uniform thay wear in ordinary mounted service are less pictoresque...
Regards
Luigi
Luigi
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That is a neat website. I wasn't aware that any bart of the Carabinieri were mounted. I take it they must have a cermonial unit, like the RCMP.
Pat