Japanese Cavalryman

[Pat Holscher]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Paul Scholtz</i>
<br />Gents, our computer has been down for the last two weeks, and I have rally been out of the loop. This is eveidenced by how much valuable material has been dispersed by Forum participants in the time that has passed. What a wealth of facts and opinions.

On this particular thread, I have an article from the October 2002 issue of MILITARY HERITAGE magizine, an organ of considerable credibility,from which I quote on page 54, regarding the Japanese invasion of New Guinea in July of l942; "On July 22 a landing force commanded by Maj. Gen. Tomitaro Horii, consisting of 2,000 troops, 1300 laborors, and 52 HORSES, sneaked ashore at Gona. The enemy quickly moved about nine miles down rhe coast and siezed Buna."

It is unclear from this account whether the horses were used for commanders of infantry, for possible courrier service, for Cavalry, of for draft purposes, but Japanese Mounted Service seems to have been represented there.

At your(mounted) service,

Paul Scholtz


At your(mounted)service,

Paul Scholtz
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

An item to keep in mind as a possible explanation is that the Japanese continued to use horses as draft animals for artillery in WWII. The Germans did this as well, of course, but the fact that the Japanese did this seems less well known. All in all Japanese artillery, while effective enough, was much more primitive in design than that used by many other nations. Also, it can't helped but be noted that the Japanese made use of an awful lot of static artillery mounts in the Pacific. Their artillery would not have been too mobile in the island campaigns in any event, given US air activity, etc.

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Paul sent these links which depict Japanese cavalrymen of various eras.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =714054989

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =714701450

Pat

[Paul Scholtz]

Pat,

If I am sucessful in getting the latter illusration bought, I'll try to have a clearer version posted for the Forum participants. The detail of the equipment is quit intersting.

By they way, when do you have time to practice law?

At your(mounted)service,

Paul Scholtz

[Pat Holscher]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Paul Scholtz</i>
<br />
By they way, when do you have time to practice law?

At your(mounted)service,

Paul Scholtz
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

LOL!

Well, that's way, way off topic, but because it allows me engage in social commentary, and is a fair question, I'll go ahead and respond.

The truth of it is that, thanks to this machine, the better question is when am I not doing it?

Allow me to explain. I'm a civil trial lawyer. In the image made popular by TV, this would mean that I'd be in trial all day, every day. Thankfully, I'm not. However, in the real world this means I spend a lot of time doing legal research, drafting motions, writing legal briefs and memoranda, corresponding with clients on various matters, etc. Oh sure, there is court time, travel time, and depositions, but the other matters amount to a huge time demand.

It used to be that, as recently as a decade ago, I had to do legal research, answer questions, etc., basically on the Court's time. That's 8:00 to 5:00. Most of my clients worked similar hours. In those days, if I needed to do legal research on a weekend, I had to call the Sheriff's Office and sign out a key for the library. I could always come down to the office at any hour and dictate letters and briefs, but normally I'd need my secretary to get them done between 9:00 and 5:00, and only occasionally require her to come in early or stay late.

Well, no longer. Now, thanks to the p.c and the modem, the online legal libraries Westlaw and Lexis, plus the online legal libraries provided by most states and the Federal government, as well as the fact that many courts now have on-line case data, and are even requiring that it be used in preference to direct contact, I can be, and therefore must be, basically at work all the time. This is true of others in my profession, as well as my clients. So, while I can, and now do, legal research, etc., correspondence, etc., seven days a week, and at all hours. This isn't whining, it is simply the nature of it. And more often than not, when I correspond with a business contact at 10:00 at night, they reply, so they're doing it too.

In that context, it's nice to be able to stop in here for a few minutes. A big relief really, to be able to talk to people with these special interest.

In some ways, it is a lot like a lodge was in a previous times. Everyday I go past the closed Moose Hall, the dying Elk Hall, the nearly closed KofC building. Previously, say before 1970 or so, these would all be full. Just the other day I checked out an old book from our library for a case (had to go to it in that case) and saw something where the Spanish American War veterans had paid for a highway bridge here. Heck, the town was small, every guy in town must have been in the lodge in order to pay for it.

Now these types of institutions have more or less died. This community is an exception really. A global one at that, where so many knowledgable people can stop in and share their knowlege. So at least the technology that keeps us at work all the time, has brought all of us together as well.

Pat

[Paul Scholtz]

Since we are dealing with German and British cavalry training, and since we had a pretty lively thread on Japanese cavalry in WW II a short time ago, does anyone have any knowledge of JAPANESE Cavalry training?? Where it was done, when, what was used, what was its mission, how equipment devloped? I took a stab at German training, somebody cowboy up and try to reserch this from the Japanese perspective.

At your(mounted)service,

Paul Scholtz

[n/a422]

I for one, would think that a Katana on the left side of the horse would look extremely cool, but.. I'm wierd that way,

seriously, would Col. Ramsey's site have any links or info involving that? or perhaps he, or someone might know about it.

<i>duct tape are not band-aids!</i>

[Redhorse]

There are reprints available of the WWII Handbook on Japanese Military Forces. I'm sure others on this site have one, but if not, I'll research the topic. The manual does touch on the equipment and arms of their troopers, to include photos of saddle, saber, and carbine. Interesting to note, though, is that their saber looks very much like any other of European design, except, I'm sure, that it utilizes the forging techniques unique to Japanese swords.

Stephen P. Wuensche
Captain, US Army
Field Artillery

[Paul Scholtz]

Originally posted by Redhorse
<br />There are reprints available of the WWII Handbook on Japanese Military Forces. I'm sure others on this site have one, but if not, I'll research the topic. The manual does touch on the equipment and arms of their troopers, to include photos of saddle, saber, and carbine. Interesting to note, though, is that their saber looks very much like any other of European design, except, I'm sure, that it utilizes the forging techniques unique to Japanese swords.

Stephen P. Wuensche
Captain, US Army
Field Artillery

Steve,

If you have access to such rsources, I wish you would make them available to us, your work has always been scholarly. A good many of supposedly Japanes Cavalry swords from WW II keep showing up on Ebay, I wonder if they are reliable.

A copy of such a document as you describe would go well in my research library......

At your(mounted)service,

Paul Scholtz

[Paul Scholtz]

Originally posted by lighthorse
<br />I for one, would think that a Katana on the left side of the horse would look extremely cool, but.. I'm wierd that way,

seriously, would Col. Ramsey's site have any links or info involving that? or perhaps he, or someone might know about it.

<i>duct tape are not band-aids!</i>

Lighthorse,

Actually several pictures of just such a vissage have been posted on the JAPANESE CAVALRYMAN? thread, and they do indeed look cool.

I'll consult Col Ramsey privately, I'm not sure he has a website, and after 3 years of guerilla warfare and a triple bypass I'm not sure he wants to be consumed by eager SMH adulators. His wife is a sweet sweet lady who protects the great man well. She also has a Doctorate, and is tough to get past, I respect them both highly. I'm not sure Col Ramsey faced any Japanese Cavalry in the Phillipines, his book makes no mention of it.. From Pat and Sam's postings I believe most of the Japanese mounted action must have taken place int China and Mongolia.

At your(mounted)service,

Paul Scholtz

[Pat Holscher]

<br />There are reprints available of the WWII Handbook on Japanese Military Forces. I'm sure others on this site have one, but if not, I'll research the topic. The manual does touch on the equipment and arms of their troopers, to include photos of saddle, saber, and carbine. Interesting to note, though, is that their saber looks very much like any other of European design, except, I'm sure, that it utilizes the forging techniques unique to Japanese swords.

Stephen P. Wuensche
Captain, US Army
Field Artillery

That is an interesting observation, and it is surprising at first. However, it is consistent with the pattern of Japanese arms. Japan, after being opened up by the US in the late 19th Century, made one of its primary goals the building of a western style military. Nearly all of Japan's combat arms had strong western influence, rather than traditional Japanese influence. In small arms, all of the ones that come immediately to mind, other than pistols, were copies or modifications of European arms. Their rifles were a variant of, or improvement actually, of the German G98. Their light machinegun was a version of the Brno, their heavy a Hotchkiss. Only ceremonial items, or symbolic items, like the Samuri type swords carried by some officers, had a notably Japanese character. Cavalry swords, being a real combat arm, would no doubt have been to a European pattern.

The Japanese Army of WWII is interesting. In some ways it really lagged behind other armies. The Japanese navy was much more advanced in term of keeping up with developments that the Japanese army. The army was sort of a 1900 to 1920 type army, with some more modern weapons adopted. Still, the lack of advancements of post WWI in their army is notable. It certainly didn't reduce their toughness at all, but it is noteworthy.

The Japanese put such an emphasis on a certain spirit of the attack carrying the day, I have to wonder what their cavalry doctrine was like.

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by Redhorse
<br />There are reprints available of the WWII Handbook on Japanese Military Forces. I'm sure others on this site have one, but if not, I'll research the topic. The manual does touch on the equipment and arms of their troopers, to include photos of saddle, saber, and carbine. Interesting to note, though, is that their saber looks very much like any other of European design, except, I'm sure, that it utilizes the forging techniques unique to Japanese swords.

Stephen P. Wuensche
Captain, US Army
Field Artillery

Here's a website on Japanese swords. There's two pages on it on military swords. Interesting to note that em swords for certain useages were of European types, while officer's swords, and some NCO's, were of the more traditional Japanese type.

http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/civilian.htm

Coincidentally, while flipping through the channels the other day I hit on the History channel's "Mail Call", in which samurai swords were being discussed. A WWII news photo of a Japanese pilot getting into the cockpit of an airplane showed the pilot stuffing his sword in with him. I'm not sure if that was propoganda or actual footage. I can't imagine that having a sword rattling around in the cockpit with you would be a good idea.

By the way, not the artillery swords used by the Japanese here. It is remarkable how widespread the short sword of this type was.

Pat

[Sam Cox]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =732960430
Hey chaps check the above ebay auction,claimed to be Jap Cav in Manchuria
Best to all
sam

Sam Cox

[Pat Holscher]

Paul sends us a series of ebay auctions of Japanese cavalry postcards. Very interesting photos:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =740193965

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =740204692

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =740199262

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =740201785

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =740195792

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

An interesting one of a river crossing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =740208581

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

http://cgi.ebay.com/IB82-JAPANESE-CAVAL ... 286.c0.m14

[mnhorse]

First time I've seen a Japanese soldier mounted. I've owned both the Type 38 and Type 44 carbines.
Also found a Japanese officers or cavalry saddle for sale at one of the Monday Horse Auctions at the Hew Holland (PA) Sales Stable.
It was of interesting construction, lots of loops and tabs to completely disassemble.
Note... looks like swivel stirrups in the picture.
Richard

[Pat Holscher]

http://funsite.unc.edu/hyperwar/Japan/I ... hb-392.jpg

[Pat Holscher]

First time I've seen a Japanese soldier mounted. I've owned both the Type 38 and Type 44 carbines.
Also found a Japanese officers or cavalry saddle for sale at one of the Monday Horse Auctions at the Hew Holland (PA) Sales Stable.
It was of interesting construction, lots of loops and tabs to completely disassemble.
Note... looks like swivel stirrups in the picture.
Richard

http://funsite.unc.edu/hyperwar/Japan/I ... hb-393.jpg

[Reiter]

Does anybody know good books in english or japanese with good info- and picture-material on Japanese Cavalry?

Horrido!

Nicole

[Pat Holscher]

Does anybody know good books in english or japanese with good info- and picture-material on Japanese Cavalry?

Horrido!

Nicole

Interesting question. The short answer would be no, but the next question would be why not?

Of all the armies that fought in World War Two that had cavalry, I think less is known about Japanese Cavalry (and probably Nationalist Chinese cavalry) than any other. I suspect the reason for that is that nearly all of the focus on the Japanese Army in WWII is on the war in the Pacific, and then in the CBI, and the Japanese Army is otherwise more or less ignored. This overlooks the fact that tens of thousands of Japanese troops fought in China.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that nearly all of the Japanese cavalry that was used in the war was used in China, where the war was fairly primitive. You can find a few photos of Japanese armor in use in China as well, and as another participant here once noted, the story of Japanese armor really takes place in China as well. I'd guess, but really don't know, that Japan's use of cavalry in China was fairly conventional, and that it probably didn't vary much from it's earlier 20th Century wars on the Asian mainland. Again, I don't know that.

A Russian language intelligence report was done on Japanese cavalry in China, and it was translated into English. Its:

Ermolayev. "Use of Japanese Cavalry in the War with China." Mil
Intell Div trans from Krasnava Konnitza, 1939, no 22. Typed
carbon, 8 Jul 1939. 4 p. U15A2C2519?

A person could probably request a copy of this from one of the U.S. military libraries, and it might be interesting to know what it has to say.