Horses in support roles, WWII

[Pat Holscher]

Gentlemen and Ladies,

This may seem like an odd question, but we've had little discussion about the use of horse around the margins of military life. We've discussed cavalry and artillery quite a bit, and engineers somewhat.

But it strikes me that horses must have shown up in day to day life in all sorts of other ways, just as they did in civilian life. Does anyone have any interesting examples?

Pat

This is not from WWII, and is really before WWI, but it's an interesting example of using a horse for something other than what we routinely imagine.

I think this soldier is mowing the lawn. Photo taken at Ft. Meyer.

[Pat Holscher]

U.S. wagon wheel factory during WWII, during which, apparently, there was an increase in production reflecting greater wagon use.

[Pat Holscher]

Bumped up due to related thread.

[Pat Holscher]

Bumped up as it sort of relates to the thread on civilian horse use.

[Pat Holscher]

From the "early replacements" thread. . .the antithesis of a horse in a support role, a Bren Gun Carrier in a horse role.

Hmmm. . . .

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infoc ... 270453.jpg

he Royal Irish Fusiliers of the British expeditionary forces come to the aid of French farmers whose horses have been commandeered by the French Army. A tank is hitched to a plow to help with the spring tilling of the soil on March 27, 1940

[Pat Holscher]

Bump.

[Pat Holscher]

Horse drawn ice cream wagon brings refreshment to the Irish Defense Force:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/militaryar ... /lightbox/

[Couvi]

Looking at the photographs of the wheel factory led me to ask the question, "Do the British farmers still use strake wheels on thier wagons, and why?" There was a time they were using heavily canted strake, or 'streak,' wheels in lieu of hoop wheels.

Early artillery pieces had this type of wheel and it was replaced in US service in about 1808 with the hoop wheel.

[Centman]

I have a cracking book, "Fall out the Officers", by Spike Mayes who joined the 1st Royal Dragoons (The Royals) oldest Cavalry Regt in the British Army, originally called The Tangier Horse, now amalgamated with The Royal Horse Guards (The Blues) to form The Blues and Royals one of the Household Cavalry Regiments.

Mayes started off as a musician, but eventually transferred to The Royal Signals where in India they used horse drawn wire layers to establish battlefield communications, all done at the gallop.

If you can get hold of a copy, a cracking read.

Prior to, and during WW11, the Germans were a predominantly horse powered Army for supply work.

During the thaw after the Russian winter the only vehicle they had that could negotiate the mud was The Panje Wagon. I'd like to see that Big Dog negotiate a Russian thaw!

[Pat Holscher]

I have a cracking book, "Fall out the Officers", by Spike Mayes who joined the 1st Royal Dragoons (The Royals) oldest Cavalry Regt in the British Army, originally called The Tangier Horse, now amalgamated with The Royal Horse Guards (The Blues) to form The Blues and Royals one of the Household Cavalry Regiments.

Mayes started off as a musician, but eventually transferred to The Royal Signals where in India they used horse drawn wire layers to establish battlefield communications, all done at the gallop.

If you can get hold of a copy, a cracking read.

Prior to, and during WW11, the Germans were a predominantly horse powered Army for supply work.

During the thaw after the Russian winter the only vehicle they had that could negotiate the mud was The Panje Wagon. I'd like to see that Big Dog negotiate a Russian thaw!

Just for those who might stop in and not be aware of it, there are a large number of very extensive threads on the forum on German horses use during World War Two, Russian horse use, and even on the panje specifically. Folks studying those topics will find lots of earlier threads specifically on them, although if they're quite old threads the search feature is sometimes a little problematic.

[Pat Holscher]

Looking at the photographs of the wheel factory led me to ask the question, "Do the British farmers still use strake wheels on thier wagons, and why?" There was a time they were using heavily canted strake, or 'streak,' wheels in lieu of hoop wheels.

Early artillery pieces had this type of wheel and it was replaced in US service in about 1808 with the hoop wheel.

Couvi, an you elaborate on those terms? I.e., hoop wheels and strake wheels?

[Couvi]

With strake, or streak, wheels the iron tire is applied to the felly in sections using half a dozen large rivets per section or 'strake'.

Strake Wheels: http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/this_old_wheel.htm

From the Guild of Model Wheelwrights: http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... 3CHOARMJyB

The hoop wheel has a tire that is a one-piece hoop that is shrunk on using heat, and usually has half a dozen flush-mounted rivets in addition around the entire tire. The tire is heated to about 1,000 degrees. Once the tire is applied to the wheel, rather quickly I might add, generous amounts of water are applied causing the metal to contract very tightly on the wood. This produces a very strong wheel. In the photographs above this is accomplished using hydraulic pressure, but the effect is the same.

Hoop Wheel: Blacksmiths welding a hoop wheel:
http://www.historicalstockphotos.com/im ... _wheel.jpg

[Centman]

British wheelwrights stopped fitting strakes to wheels in the early 1800's, a great book and source for this is "The Wheelwrights Shop" by George Sturt, who grew up in, and eventually ran the family wheelwrighting shop in Fanham Surrey, just down the road from Aldershot the home of the British Army.

He describes how as a boy the old wheelwrights could pick up a piece of elm, and just by looking at it tell if it would make a hub, or nave, if not it went onto the firewood pile. Today with our lack of inherent skill, we pick up things and think we can make a silk purse out of a sows ear, when we find we cant, we go straight ahead and try and do the same thing over and over again, we just seem to have lost the knowledge that tells us what we can and cant achieve.

Early traction engines had strakes instead of one piece tyres as it gave them more grip.

[Pat Holscher]

Related to an off line discussion.

And to summer.

Soldier mowing the lawn, Ft. Meyer, with a mule drawn mower.