Hey,
Whats the answer to the previous quesiton?
Terry
Postwar US Army mounted troops
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by deddygetty</i>
<br />All of the Constabulary regiments had as a part of their organization a Regimental Horse Platoon, for patrolling those areas unreachable by vehicle. They were also used for parades and ceremonies, as in one of the biggest Cavalry scams in military history as far as I'm concerned.
The 2nd Cavalry Regiment, which became the 2nd Constabulary Regiment after WW II, was largely responsible for the formation of the Constabulary. They designed the lightning bolt insignia and motto, their Troop D was used as a model for the mechanized Constabulary troops, and the 2nd Constabulary Regiment was the first to staff the Constabulary school at Sonthofen. The first commander of the Constabulary, Gen. Harmon, commanded a squadron of the 2nd Cavalry during WW I. Only a unit such as this could pull off the scam that they did.
"By Brig. Gen. Raymond E. Bell Jr., U.S. Army (Ret.)
It was an impressive sight. Upon the reviewing stand as honored guest was General Dwight D. Eisenhower, supreme commander of Allied forces in Europe. It was an autumn day in October 1946, in Munich, Germany, and he was taking the pass in review of the 2nd Constabulary Regiment. At the head of the formation the regimental commander, Colonel Charles Reed, a seasoned cavalryman, rode on a handsome charger. He was followed by a platoon of mounted soldiers which trotted in front of a khaki-clad band. Behind the musicians came the regiment’s motorized and mechanized vehicles, all fully manned. As the last element passed down the Munich street, all observers agreed the parade was a huge success, and the regiment was praised for its performance.
The Americans in postwar Germany staged many such parades, but this one was unique. Unbeknownst to Eisenhower, and surely to everybody else outside the 2nd Constabulary Regiment, not every participant in uniform was an American soldier. Half the troopers mounted on horseback, most of the musicians, and a portion of the crews in vehicles were......"
Anybody care to take a guess? Here are pictures of the parade and reviewing stand.
http://elpaso.ezoshosting.com/~dragoons ... _photo.php
http://elpaso.ezoshosting.com/~dragoons ... _photo.php
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Those links are working for me.
Pat
<br />All of the Constabulary regiments had as a part of their organization a Regimental Horse Platoon, for patrolling those areas unreachable by vehicle. They were also used for parades and ceremonies, as in one of the biggest Cavalry scams in military history as far as I'm concerned.
The 2nd Cavalry Regiment, which became the 2nd Constabulary Regiment after WW II, was largely responsible for the formation of the Constabulary. They designed the lightning bolt insignia and motto, their Troop D was used as a model for the mechanized Constabulary troops, and the 2nd Constabulary Regiment was the first to staff the Constabulary school at Sonthofen. The first commander of the Constabulary, Gen. Harmon, commanded a squadron of the 2nd Cavalry during WW I. Only a unit such as this could pull off the scam that they did.
"By Brig. Gen. Raymond E. Bell Jr., U.S. Army (Ret.)
It was an impressive sight. Upon the reviewing stand as honored guest was General Dwight D. Eisenhower, supreme commander of Allied forces in Europe. It was an autumn day in October 1946, in Munich, Germany, and he was taking the pass in review of the 2nd Constabulary Regiment. At the head of the formation the regimental commander, Colonel Charles Reed, a seasoned cavalryman, rode on a handsome charger. He was followed by a platoon of mounted soldiers which trotted in front of a khaki-clad band. Behind the musicians came the regiment’s motorized and mechanized vehicles, all fully manned. As the last element passed down the Munich street, all observers agreed the parade was a huge success, and the regiment was praised for its performance.
The Americans in postwar Germany staged many such parades, but this one was unique. Unbeknownst to Eisenhower, and surely to everybody else outside the 2nd Constabulary Regiment, not every participant in uniform was an American soldier. Half the troopers mounted on horseback, most of the musicians, and a portion of the crews in vehicles were......"
Anybody care to take a guess? Here are pictures of the parade and reviewing stand.
http://elpaso.ezoshosting.com/~dragoons ... _photo.php
http://elpaso.ezoshosting.com/~dragoons ... _photo.php
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Those links are working for me.
Pat
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Pat Holscher
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I'll hazard a guess. Eastern European refugees?
Pat
Pat
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deddygetty
I was hoping to get a response. Thanks guys, the suspense was killing me!
I got this from a reliable source....WW II History Magazine, Sept. 2005 issue I believe. It is posted on their website. http://www.wwiihistorymagazine.com/2005 ... ghost.html
I still wanted to get confirmation, or possibly some more information, so I called Bill Heidner, a member of the Board of Governors for the 2nd Cavalry Association, and former curator for the Reed Museum, and received both. He not only confirmed that numerous POW's from the 11th Panzer Division were used to fill the ranks of the depleted 2nd Constabulary Regiment for the parade, making them the only complete unit present, he also informed me that Col. Reed got a 5-star chewing out from Ike after the parade. Reed thought the POW's had been discovered, which would have ended his career, but was relieved to discover he was being chastized for having horses. The horse cavalry had been done away with, and Reed was being insubordinate for flaunting horses in front of him in such a manner. Ike was unaware of the Regimental Horse Platoons in the Constabulary. Reed took the chewing out to keep Ike focused on the horses and not the troopers.
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
I got this from a reliable source....WW II History Magazine, Sept. 2005 issue I believe. It is posted on their website. http://www.wwiihistorymagazine.com/2005 ... ghost.html
I still wanted to get confirmation, or possibly some more information, so I called Bill Heidner, a member of the Board of Governors for the 2nd Cavalry Association, and former curator for the Reed Museum, and received both. He not only confirmed that numerous POW's from the 11th Panzer Division were used to fill the ranks of the depleted 2nd Constabulary Regiment for the parade, making them the only complete unit present, he also informed me that Col. Reed got a 5-star chewing out from Ike after the parade. Reed thought the POW's had been discovered, which would have ended his career, but was relieved to discover he was being chastized for having horses. The horse cavalry had been done away with, and Reed was being insubordinate for flaunting horses in front of him in such a manner. Ike was unaware of the Regimental Horse Platoons in the Constabulary. Reed took the chewing out to keep Ike focused on the horses and not the troopers.
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by deddygetty</i>
<br />I was hoping to get a response. Thanks guys, the suspense was killing me!
I got this from a reliable source....WW II History Magazine, Sept. 2005 issue I believe. It is posted on their website. http://www.wwiihistorymagazine.com/2005 ... ghost.html
I still wanted to get confirmation, or possibly some more information, so I called Bill Heidner, a member of the Board of Governors for the 2nd Cavalry Association, and former curator for the Reed Museum, and received both. He not only confirmed that numerous POW's from the 11th Panzer Division were used to fill the ranks of the depleted 2nd Constabulary Regiment for the parade, making them the only complete unit present, he also informed me that Col. Reed got a 5-star chewing out from Ike after the parade. Reed thought the POW's had been discovered, which would have ended his career, but was relieved to discover he was being chastized for having horses. The horse cavalry had been done away with, and Reed was being insubordinate for flaunting horses in front of him in such a manner. Ike was unaware of the Regimental Horse Platoons in the Constabulary. Reed took the chewing out to keep Ike focused on the horses and not the troopers.
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Eisenhower actually was on record during the North African campaign as wishing that the Army had sent over a horse cavalry regiment. He was of the same opinion as Patton that if one had been available, they would have been very useful in Tunisia. Whether he was correct or not, of course, we'll never know, and now in retrospect it's hard to imagine.
He was no doubt also aware of the use of horses in Italy, which of course was not in great numbers. The Constabulary actually wasn't the only border patrolling outfit that used horses right after WWII at that.
I hate to be a contrarian, but later day recollections, that is ones passed down through somebody else, sometimes have the tendancy to get somewhat altered in focus over time. I don't doubt that Eisenhower may have been upset over something here regarding the horses, but I wonder if the nuance of it might have been lost over time. Eisenhower was a fairly accomplished horseman himself, and the horse wasn't too far removed from the Army at that time. Indeed, horse cavalry theoretically remained right after WWII, although in reality it didn't. Some were still campaigning for its active restoration at the time, although they were in the minority, and clearly fighting for a lost cause. It'd be intersting to know the exact nuance of the conversation, although it's unlikely that we'll every know it now.
Pat
<br />I was hoping to get a response. Thanks guys, the suspense was killing me!
I got this from a reliable source....WW II History Magazine, Sept. 2005 issue I believe. It is posted on their website. http://www.wwiihistorymagazine.com/2005 ... ghost.html
I still wanted to get confirmation, or possibly some more information, so I called Bill Heidner, a member of the Board of Governors for the 2nd Cavalry Association, and former curator for the Reed Museum, and received both. He not only confirmed that numerous POW's from the 11th Panzer Division were used to fill the ranks of the depleted 2nd Constabulary Regiment for the parade, making them the only complete unit present, he also informed me that Col. Reed got a 5-star chewing out from Ike after the parade. Reed thought the POW's had been discovered, which would have ended his career, but was relieved to discover he was being chastized for having horses. The horse cavalry had been done away with, and Reed was being insubordinate for flaunting horses in front of him in such a manner. Ike was unaware of the Regimental Horse Platoons in the Constabulary. Reed took the chewing out to keep Ike focused on the horses and not the troopers.
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Eisenhower actually was on record during the North African campaign as wishing that the Army had sent over a horse cavalry regiment. He was of the same opinion as Patton that if one had been available, they would have been very useful in Tunisia. Whether he was correct or not, of course, we'll never know, and now in retrospect it's hard to imagine.
He was no doubt also aware of the use of horses in Italy, which of course was not in great numbers. The Constabulary actually wasn't the only border patrolling outfit that used horses right after WWII at that.
I hate to be a contrarian, but later day recollections, that is ones passed down through somebody else, sometimes have the tendancy to get somewhat altered in focus over time. I don't doubt that Eisenhower may have been upset over something here regarding the horses, but I wonder if the nuance of it might have been lost over time. Eisenhower was a fairly accomplished horseman himself, and the horse wasn't too far removed from the Army at that time. Indeed, horse cavalry theoretically remained right after WWII, although in reality it didn't. Some were still campaigning for its active restoration at the time, although they were in the minority, and clearly fighting for a lost cause. It'd be intersting to know the exact nuance of the conversation, although it's unlikely that we'll every know it now.
Pat
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deddygetty
"I hate to be a contrarian, but later day recollections, that is ones passed down through somebody else, sometimes have the tendancy to get somewhat altered in focus over time. I don't doubt that Eisenhower may have been upset over something here regarding the horses, but I wonder if the nuance of it might have been lost over time."
Well Pat, to coin a popular phrase, Bill Heidner got it straight from the horses mouths. At a semi-annual reunion of the Second Cavalry Association several years ago, Col. Reed (ret) and Lou Holz, who was a Lieutenant with Col. Reed at the parade, told the story to Bill. Can't get it more direct than that. Col. Reed has since passed, but Lou Holz is still on the Board of Governors of the 2nd Cavalry Association.
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
Well Pat, to coin a popular phrase, Bill Heidner got it straight from the horses mouths. At a semi-annual reunion of the Second Cavalry Association several years ago, Col. Reed (ret) and Lou Holz, who was a Lieutenant with Col. Reed at the parade, told the story to Bill. Can't get it more direct than that. Col. Reed has since passed, but Lou Holz is still on the Board of Governors of the 2nd Cavalry Association.
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by deddygetty</i>
<br />"I hate to be a contrarian, but later day recollections, that is ones passed down through somebody else, sometimes have the tendancy to get somewhat altered in focus over time. I don't doubt that Eisenhower may have been upset over something here regarding the horses, but I wonder if the nuance of it might have been lost over time."
Well Pat, to coin a popular phrase, Bill Heidner got it straight from the horses mouths. At a semi-annual reunion of the Second Cavalry Association several years ago, Col. Reed (ret) and Lou Holz, who was a Lieutenant with Col. Reed at the parade, told the story to Bill. Can't get it more direct than that. Col. Reed has since passed, but Lou Holz is still on the Board of Governors of the 2nd Cavalry Association.
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't doubt that they recounted the story accurately as they recalled it, or that it's an honest recollection of something Eisenhower said. My problem is that I wonder if the context is important to it, or maybe would give us a meaning other than that later recalled.
My problem is based on this. After WWII there was quite a bit of horse use for patrolling of recently surrendered territory, it wasn't unique to one unit, or one area. And one unit in the ETO had horses as part of it's established organization, that unit being the 10th Mountain Division. So horses and horse use weren't quite as isolated, or even unique, as we might later suppose. I'd guess that Eisenhower would have been aware of that, given as these troops were under his command, and as he himself had earlier been on record as favoring cavalry in Tunisia.
Additonally, as surprising as it may now seem, the Army was actually sending some captured mounts back to the United States at this time, with the Quartermaster Corps still having some idea of using captured German horses to improve the US remounts. That quickly dissolved, but not before quantities of captured German mounts were actually sent to the US. They were in turn handed over to the Department of Agriculture, which sold them.
Anyhow, unless Eisenhower was unaware of all of this, we'd have to presume that he knew about the use of horses for patrolling in Europe, the use of horses in the 10th Mountain Division, and the program going on in his own area to take remounts to the US for use by the Quartermaster Corps. That he said something, or even exactly what was recalled, I don't doubt, but I think that perhaps the story might not be quite what we might imagine it to be now.
Pat
<br />"I hate to be a contrarian, but later day recollections, that is ones passed down through somebody else, sometimes have the tendancy to get somewhat altered in focus over time. I don't doubt that Eisenhower may have been upset over something here regarding the horses, but I wonder if the nuance of it might have been lost over time."
Well Pat, to coin a popular phrase, Bill Heidner got it straight from the horses mouths. At a semi-annual reunion of the Second Cavalry Association several years ago, Col. Reed (ret) and Lou Holz, who was a Lieutenant with Col. Reed at the parade, told the story to Bill. Can't get it more direct than that. Col. Reed has since passed, but Lou Holz is still on the Board of Governors of the 2nd Cavalry Association.
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't doubt that they recounted the story accurately as they recalled it, or that it's an honest recollection of something Eisenhower said. My problem is that I wonder if the context is important to it, or maybe would give us a meaning other than that later recalled.
My problem is based on this. After WWII there was quite a bit of horse use for patrolling of recently surrendered territory, it wasn't unique to one unit, or one area. And one unit in the ETO had horses as part of it's established organization, that unit being the 10th Mountain Division. So horses and horse use weren't quite as isolated, or even unique, as we might later suppose. I'd guess that Eisenhower would have been aware of that, given as these troops were under his command, and as he himself had earlier been on record as favoring cavalry in Tunisia.
Additonally, as surprising as it may now seem, the Army was actually sending some captured mounts back to the United States at this time, with the Quartermaster Corps still having some idea of using captured German horses to improve the US remounts. That quickly dissolved, but not before quantities of captured German mounts were actually sent to the US. They were in turn handed over to the Department of Agriculture, which sold them.
Anyhow, unless Eisenhower was unaware of all of this, we'd have to presume that he knew about the use of horses for patrolling in Europe, the use of horses in the 10th Mountain Division, and the program going on in his own area to take remounts to the US for use by the Quartermaster Corps. That he said something, or even exactly what was recalled, I don't doubt, but I think that perhaps the story might not be quite what we might imagine it to be now.
Pat
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deddygetty
The fact of the matter is, the Constabulary had just been formed four months prior to the parade in Munich, and indeed Ike was totally unaware at the time that a Regimental horse platoon was a part of each Regiment. And regardless of what Ike thought about horses in Africa, or what the 10th Mountain Div. was doing, this was the 2nd Constabulary Regt. in Munich, and as far as Ike was concerned, they were not supposed to be on horseback, plain and simple.
The captured horses you mention were no doubt from the hundreds of horses captured by the 2nd Cavalry in Czechoslovakia at the end of April 1945, which included the Piber breeding herd of Lipizzans, later returned to the Austrians, the Royal Yugoslavian Lipizzan stallion and a few from that herd, the finest Arabians in Europe, horses belonging to the German High Command, hundreds of cossack horses brought by defecting white Russian troops joining the Germans, the finest race horses from all over Europe, all kept at the Hostau horse farm by German troops and allied POW's. Col. Reed discovered the whereabouts of the horses and devised a plan to rescue them and the POW's. He received permission from Patton, and Task Force Stewart was formed to break through enemy lines and capture and hold Hostau and the horses. Operation Cowboy was the transportation of the horses, captured German POW's, released Allied POW's, and many family members, into Germany to protect them from the Russians after the war. The German soldiers and Allied POW's had been there so long at Hostau that many had started families with local women. The 1960's Disney movie Miracle of the White Stallions is based on the mission, but like Hollywood tends to do, they have their own version of what happened.
Next month is a memorial in Czechoslovakia for the two 2nd Cavalry troopers killed during the mission, at the site of the battle in the former town of Ruzov, or Rosendorf as the German's called it, which is nothing more than a few crumbling farmhouse foundations in the woods of the newly reopened no-man's zone along the Czech Republic border. The first memorial was held there April 28th, the day the mission started.
Here are a couple pic's from the first memorial.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/de ... rial25.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/de ... rial43.jpg
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
The captured horses you mention were no doubt from the hundreds of horses captured by the 2nd Cavalry in Czechoslovakia at the end of April 1945, which included the Piber breeding herd of Lipizzans, later returned to the Austrians, the Royal Yugoslavian Lipizzan stallion and a few from that herd, the finest Arabians in Europe, horses belonging to the German High Command, hundreds of cossack horses brought by defecting white Russian troops joining the Germans, the finest race horses from all over Europe, all kept at the Hostau horse farm by German troops and allied POW's. Col. Reed discovered the whereabouts of the horses and devised a plan to rescue them and the POW's. He received permission from Patton, and Task Force Stewart was formed to break through enemy lines and capture and hold Hostau and the horses. Operation Cowboy was the transportation of the horses, captured German POW's, released Allied POW's, and many family members, into Germany to protect them from the Russians after the war. The German soldiers and Allied POW's had been there so long at Hostau that many had started families with local women. The 1960's Disney movie Miracle of the White Stallions is based on the mission, but like Hollywood tends to do, they have their own version of what happened.
Next month is a memorial in Czechoslovakia for the two 2nd Cavalry troopers killed during the mission, at the site of the battle in the former town of Ruzov, or Rosendorf as the German's called it, which is nothing more than a few crumbling farmhouse foundations in the woods of the newly reopened no-man's zone along the Czech Republic border. The first memorial was held there April 28th, the day the mission started.
Here are a couple pic's from the first memorial.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/de ... rial25.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/de ... rial43.jpg
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
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kerry savee
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David,
Good pics of the memorial. Are the folks locals dressed as WWII American soldiers?
Kerry
<i>"ride your horse forward and set him straight"</i> Gustav Steinbrecht
Good pics of the memorial. Are the folks locals dressed as WWII American soldiers?
Kerry
<i>"ride your horse forward and set him straight"</i> Gustav Steinbrecht
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deddygetty
Yes, those are all members of the Military Car Club Pilsen, who had a convoy of military vehicles and set up a WW II camp. They are very limited in the US gear they get, so have different eras mixed together, whatever they can come up with. They have some beautiful US jeeps though. Some M151A2 models with full snorkel kits for fording rivers, too. Like brand new, with Thompson machinegun mounted next to the driver. Very nice!
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
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Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by deddygetty</i>
<br />
The captured horses you mention were no doubt from the hundreds of horses captured by the 2nd Cavalry in Czechoslovakia at the end of April 1945, which included the Piber breeding herd of Lipizzans, later returned to the Austrians, the Royal Yugoslavian Lipizzan stallion and a few from that herd, the finest Arabians in Europe, horses belonging to the German High Command, hundreds of cossack horses brought by defecting white Russian troops joining the Germans, the finest race horses from all over Europe, all kept at the Hostau horse farm by German troops and allied POW's. Col. Reed discovered the whereabouts of the horses and devised a plan to rescue them and the POW's. He received permission from Patton, and Task Force Stewart was formed to break through enemy lines and capture and hold Hostau and the horses. Operation Cowboy was the transportation of the horses, captured German POW's, released Allied POW's, and many family members, into Germany to protect them from the Russians after the war. The German soldiers and Allied POW's had been there so long at Hostau that many had started families with local women. The 1960's Disney movie Miracle of the White Stallions is based on the mission, but like Hollywood tends to do, they have their own version of what happened.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Somewhere around here we have some pretty good detail on the captured horses brought over in anticipation of Remount use, including the names of some of the studs. I can't recall the details presently, although there's some photgraphs accompanying the thread. At least a few Trakeners were included in the group.
The Germans, of course, had a fairly substantial remount program, although it was very stressed by the war, and very disrupted by the late events in the war. At least to some degree some part of it was located in Prussia, and so the mounts had to be driven east in advance of the Soviet advance so as to not be captured by Soviets. Some German remounts were, of course, captured by the Soviets.
Cossack remounts brings up an interesting question. Cossacks in German service is a topic that has been extensively addressed here, but I don't recall their mounts ever being discussed. I guess I've assumed that Cossacks truly in German service (as opposed to independant groups aligned with the Germans) obtained German remounts, but we haven't actually explored that.
Pat
<br />
The captured horses you mention were no doubt from the hundreds of horses captured by the 2nd Cavalry in Czechoslovakia at the end of April 1945, which included the Piber breeding herd of Lipizzans, later returned to the Austrians, the Royal Yugoslavian Lipizzan stallion and a few from that herd, the finest Arabians in Europe, horses belonging to the German High Command, hundreds of cossack horses brought by defecting white Russian troops joining the Germans, the finest race horses from all over Europe, all kept at the Hostau horse farm by German troops and allied POW's. Col. Reed discovered the whereabouts of the horses and devised a plan to rescue them and the POW's. He received permission from Patton, and Task Force Stewart was formed to break through enemy lines and capture and hold Hostau and the horses. Operation Cowboy was the transportation of the horses, captured German POW's, released Allied POW's, and many family members, into Germany to protect them from the Russians after the war. The German soldiers and Allied POW's had been there so long at Hostau that many had started families with local women. The 1960's Disney movie Miracle of the White Stallions is based on the mission, but like Hollywood tends to do, they have their own version of what happened.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Somewhere around here we have some pretty good detail on the captured horses brought over in anticipation of Remount use, including the names of some of the studs. I can't recall the details presently, although there's some photgraphs accompanying the thread. At least a few Trakeners were included in the group.
The Germans, of course, had a fairly substantial remount program, although it was very stressed by the war, and very disrupted by the late events in the war. At least to some degree some part of it was located in Prussia, and so the mounts had to be driven east in advance of the Soviet advance so as to not be captured by Soviets. Some German remounts were, of course, captured by the Soviets.
Cossack remounts brings up an interesting question. Cossacks in German service is a topic that has been extensively addressed here, but I don't recall their mounts ever being discussed. I guess I've assumed that Cossacks truly in German service (as opposed to independant groups aligned with the Germans) obtained German remounts, but we haven't actually explored that.
Pat
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kerry savee
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What a wonderful tribute to the two soldiers that lost their lives during the Hostau rescue mission.
Kerry
<i>"ride your horse forward and set him straight"</i> Gustav Steinbrecht
Kerry
<i>"ride your horse forward and set him straight"</i> Gustav Steinbrecht
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deddygetty
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pat Holscher</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by deddygetty</i>
<br />
The captured horses you mention were no doubt from the hundreds of horses captured by the 2nd Cavalry in Czechoslovakia at the end of April 1945, which included the Piber breeding herd of Lipizzans, later returned to the Austrians, the Royal Yugoslavian Lipizzan stallion and a few from that herd, the finest Arabians in Europe, horses belonging to the German High Command, hundreds of cossack horses brought by defecting white Russian troops joining the Germans, the finest race horses from all over Europe, all kept at the Hostau horse farm by German troops and allied POW's. Col. Reed discovered the whereabouts of the horses and devised a plan to rescue them and the POW's. He received permission from Patton, and Task Force Stewart was formed to break through enemy lines and capture and hold Hostau and the horses. Operation Cowboy was the transportation of the horses, captured German POW's, released Allied POW's, and many family members, into Germany to protect them from the Russians after the war. The German soldiers and Allied POW's had been there so long at Hostau that many had started families with local women. The 1960's Disney movie Miracle of the White Stallions is based on the mission, but like Hollywood tends to do, they have their own version of what happened.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Somewhere around here we have some pretty good detail on the captured horses brought over in anticipation of Remount use, including the names of some of the studs. I can't recall the details presently, although there's some photgraphs accompanying the thread. At least a few Trakeners were included in the group.
The Germans, of course, had a fairly substantial remount program, although it was very stressed by the war, and very disrupted by the late events in the war. At least to some degree some part of it was located in Prussia, and so the mounts had to be driven east in advance of the Soviet advance so as to not be captured by Soviets. Some German remounts were, of course, captured by the Soviets.
Cossack remounts brings up an interesting question. Cossacks in German service is a topic that has been extensively addressed here, but I don't recall their mounts ever being discussed. I guess I've assumed that Cossacks truly in German service (as opposed to independant groups aligned with the Germans) obtained German remounts, but we haven't actually explored that.
Pat
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I think I probably posted this story on the forum somewhere, but I think it's worth repeating. This is a personal account of the Lipizzan rescue by Col. Reed, commander of the 2nd Cavalry Group, and discusses the Cossacks and their horses, as well as shipment of some of the other horses to the US.
[Note: As this text was indeed set out in another thread, I've bumped that one up, as noted, so that replies to the item are more centralized and more easily located. Pat.]
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by deddygetty</i>
<br />
The captured horses you mention were no doubt from the hundreds of horses captured by the 2nd Cavalry in Czechoslovakia at the end of April 1945, which included the Piber breeding herd of Lipizzans, later returned to the Austrians, the Royal Yugoslavian Lipizzan stallion and a few from that herd, the finest Arabians in Europe, horses belonging to the German High Command, hundreds of cossack horses brought by defecting white Russian troops joining the Germans, the finest race horses from all over Europe, all kept at the Hostau horse farm by German troops and allied POW's. Col. Reed discovered the whereabouts of the horses and devised a plan to rescue them and the POW's. He received permission from Patton, and Task Force Stewart was formed to break through enemy lines and capture and hold Hostau and the horses. Operation Cowboy was the transportation of the horses, captured German POW's, released Allied POW's, and many family members, into Germany to protect them from the Russians after the war. The German soldiers and Allied POW's had been there so long at Hostau that many had started families with local women. The 1960's Disney movie Miracle of the White Stallions is based on the mission, but like Hollywood tends to do, they have their own version of what happened.
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Somewhere around here we have some pretty good detail on the captured horses brought over in anticipation of Remount use, including the names of some of the studs. I can't recall the details presently, although there's some photgraphs accompanying the thread. At least a few Trakeners were included in the group.
The Germans, of course, had a fairly substantial remount program, although it was very stressed by the war, and very disrupted by the late events in the war. At least to some degree some part of it was located in Prussia, and so the mounts had to be driven east in advance of the Soviet advance so as to not be captured by Soviets. Some German remounts were, of course, captured by the Soviets.
Cossack remounts brings up an interesting question. Cossacks in German service is a topic that has been extensively addressed here, but I don't recall their mounts ever being discussed. I guess I've assumed that Cossacks truly in German service (as opposed to independant groups aligned with the Germans) obtained German remounts, but we haven't actually explored that.
Pat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think I probably posted this story on the forum somewhere, but I think it's worth repeating. This is a personal account of the Lipizzan rescue by Col. Reed, commander of the 2nd Cavalry Group, and discusses the Cossacks and their horses, as well as shipment of some of the other horses to the US.
[Note: As this text was indeed set out in another thread, I've bumped that one up, as noted, so that replies to the item are more centralized and more easily located. Pat.]
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by deddygetty</i>
<br />
I think I probably posted this story on the forum somewhere, but I think it's worth repeating. This is a personal account of the Lipizzan rescue by Col. Reed, commander of the 2nd Cavalry Group, and discusses the Cossacks and their horses, as well as shipment of some of the other horses to the US.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It was posted in this thread:
topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5584
Pat
<br />
I think I probably posted this story on the forum somewhere, but I think it's worth repeating. This is a personal account of the Lipizzan rescue by Col. Reed, commander of the 2nd Cavalry Group, and discusses the Cossacks and their horses, as well as shipment of some of the other horses to the US.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It was posted in this thread:
topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5584
Pat
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As a note, given as this entry has already been posted, I'll likely edit the item by Col Reed out of this thread, and bump up the other, so that the information presented is in a single thread.
Pat
Pat
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deddygetty
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pat Holscher</i>
<br />As a note, given as this entry has already been posted, I'll likely edit the item by Col Reed out of this thread, and bump up the other, so that the information presented is in a single thread.
Pat
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Hope you don't mind if I put back the link to the Czech Republic webpage honoring troopers Manz and Sutton that was at the bottom of the post about Reed.
http://www.gjt.cz/includes/military/OKUS/OKus.htm
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
<br />As a note, given as this entry has already been posted, I'll likely edit the item by Col Reed out of this thread, and bump up the other, so that the information presented is in a single thread.
Pat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hope you don't mind if I put back the link to the Czech Republic webpage honoring troopers Manz and Sutton that was at the bottom of the post about Reed.
http://www.gjt.cz/includes/military/OKUS/OKus.htm
Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.
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Pat Holscher
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Bump.