Re: The Big Picture (Military Panographic Photos)

[Pat Holscher]

Panographic photos were very popular at one time. There's some really neat ones around, I thought it might be interesting to put some up for comment, using the Prompt feature.



Camp Kearney, CA Remounts 1917

Pat

[Couvi]

Panographic photos were very popular at one time.

Whatever you do, keep them in the frame!

Couvi

[Philip S]

Here is a nice article about the presentation of a WWI cavalry picture to a local PA Nat'l Guard unit:
http://www.basd.net/bahs/news/armory.htm

[Philip S]

I have always wondered how these pictures were made:
http://panphoto.com/cirkut.htm

[Texian]

We have a lot of panaromic pictures down here in Texas. Unfortunately, they seem to be mainly of graduating classes of small Bible colleges.

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by Texian

We have a lot of panaromic pictures down here in Texas. Unfortunately, they seem to be mainly of graduating classes of small Bible colleges.

Well here's one that isn't. Six regiments of artillery on the same parade ground, 1917. El Paso.


Lots of Artillery Horses

Pat

[Texian]

Thanks! Do you think the slight "sunray effect" is deliberate, or perhaps it is something like water damage?

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by Texian


Thanks! Do you think the slight "sunray effect" is deliberate, or perhaps it is something like water damage?

I don't know, actually up until you mentioned it I had only noticed it on the parade ground and thought it might have been an odd effort at haying or something. I see that it is also in the sky too. I'm guessing damage, but it's damage that worked out alright.

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Here's another Texas one. 6th Cavalry, Texas City, 1913.

Texas City

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

This is an interesting one. Woodrow Wilson reviewing the troops in 1919, mounted, and sporting a top hat.


Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Another interesting one. Is this a New Jersey National Guard unit? The NJR designation is a new one to me.

Note that this was taken right after WWI. I'd expect that most of these troopers had WWI experience, although doubtful as cavalry.

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Here's some National Guardsmen in 1917. Michigan National Guard. Take a close look at the scabbards, what longarm are they carrying?

Pat

[Trooper]

Pat,
This is an odd photo concerning arms and accoutrements. I cannot ascertain what longarm they have in the sacabbards, but they look very narrow in the stock and seem have crescent buttplates. A guess only would be Winchester rifles, but it is just a guess. I am also intrigued by the butt to rear revolver holsters that can be seen on some figures. These would appear to be some non regulation (US Army regulation that is), holster, probably containing a .38 revolver, although it is possible they are M1917 .45's in an prototype M2 holster! Can anyone enlighten me as to what the nightstick looking objects on the offside pommels are? Are these shelter tent poles or have the troops been called out for some sort of crowd control duty? This is an odd picture to me, but then I know very little about state troops and will await more informed input with interest.
Dusan

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by Trooper
A guess only would be Winchester rifles, but it is just a guess.

I had not considered the possibility of .30-40 Winchester carbines, which were purchased during the Spanish American War. I'd assumed, without any support, that they were basically disposed of after the war, but perhaps not. You can find photos of .30-40 Krag rifles still in use by Guard units just prior to US entry in to WWI. I wonder if these might possibly be .30-40 Winchesters still in service in 1917?

Pat

[Light Dragoon]

Pat, they could be either Winchester '95's in .30-40, or even in .30-'06. Prior to WWI I know that State units had an enormous amount of latitude in what they used, as long as they fired the standard US Service cartridge. Michigan, as I recall, used the M1899 Remington-Lee bolt-action rifle in .30-40 during the late 1890's (This is NOT the M1895 Lee Navy straight-pull, but a smokeless version of the M1885 Remington-Lee Navy, forebearer of the famous Lee-Metfords and Lee-Enfields), so they were known to travel their own road, so to speak. But other than that conjecture, I can add nothing.

BTW, I do have a photograph taken in 1918 at Camp Kearny of some Artillerymen, with their gear hanging on a fence behind them, with rifles in scabbards showing clearly the semi-pistol grip and dog-leg bolt of the M1917 US Rifle, AKA "Enfield", as made by Winchester and Remington during that conflict. Kind of big for a horseman's weapon, as they are a tad longer and heavier than even an '03, but there it is.

Gordon

"After God, we owe our Victory to our Horses"

Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada, 1543

[Trooper]

Gordon,
1917's in scabbards really would be like a log of wood between the riders leg and the horse! What chance leg aids with that? I am interested to know if the scabbards in the picture are the M1904 or something else? Also, what do you think of the "night sticks" (??) in Pat's picture?
Dusan

[Couvi]

Pat,

I have in my establishment a Winchester rifle in either .30-30 or .30-40 marked Colorado National Guard. I have no idea of the provenance on this piece, but it is in very good condition.

Couvi

[Pat Holscher]

Interesting discussion on the possibilities on the longarm. I note that Imperial Russia acquired some Winchesters in their rimmed 7.62 round during WWI, so the rifle saw some use in that war in any event.

I hate to admit it, but it might not really have been that bad of choice for the trenches at that.

On the nightsticks, that's what I suspect they are. I note that they all seem to have them. Crowd control of some sort?

Pat

[Couvi]

Pat,

I checked the database today on the Winchester and it is a Carbine, Winchester, M1895, cal..30, SN: 20126, Marked "Colo Nat'l Guard."

The Dick Act of 1903 changed the state militias into the National Guard, so I would be inclined to believe that this weapon would be post-1903. I haven’t seen it in several years, but my memory says that it is in very good condition.

Couvi

[Texian]

RE: Arms in Michigan Photo


Probably adding more confusion than clarity, but the gun on the far left horseman really looks like a single barrel shotgun broken open at the breech.

The others look more like shotguns to me as well, though perhaps wooden training "rifles"?

My screen just doesn't give a lot of detail.