Grey's Scouts on Film

Anulf · Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:33 pm

I came across this three minute clip on youtube where if you hang tough to the 1:49 mark and for about a second, the Grey's Scouts...I figure... charge toward the camera. One poor Trooper is having a little difficulty with his mount, directly in front of the camera but near their start line. Maybe the horse was camera shy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s-VTYD9g98

roy elderkin · Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:21 am

There were a number of films like that. The best one was by German TV who did a lot filming with Grey's.

Anulf · Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:28 am

Hey Roy, good to see you're still keeping an eye on this forum.

I guess my main "concern" if you will, is the trooper being dumped by his horse in this "charge". I can't imagine that there would have any gunfire for this photo op. Maybe the horse was just having a bad day. Would this behavior been reason to retire this horse from the unit?

I read an account from the 1885 Northwest Rebellion in Western Canada. A NWMP constable and his scout accidentally rode right into Big Bear's camp. When the Cree raised the alarm and opened fire, the Mountie's horse started bucking. He was thrown to the ground and shot down while the scout rode like hell and made his escape. It always bothered me that the young Mountie might have made it through the gunfire too if his horse had been better...desensitized?

roy elderkin · Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:58 am

No we all have bad days including horses, it was just as well it was a training film. Even on contacts there were sticky moments, but I expect no matter what country they too have their moments.

Pat Holscher · Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:23 am

I saw a few UH-1s in that clip, but more of some other pattern of helicopter. Anyone know what model it was?

And were those jets Mirage fighters?

roy elderkin · Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:31 am

Pat the Rhodesian Air Force had a collection of aircraft and helicopters. They ranged from Bells, Alloettes,Gloucesters. Canberras Hunters. There were others but the names allude me at the moment.

roy elderkin · Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:34 am

Sorry Pat there were also Mirages, most of those were with the SA Air Force. They were mostly based on the Rhodesian/ South African border fire force could call them at any time.

Pat Holscher · Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:07 pm

roy elderkin wrote:Sorry Pat there were also Mirages, most of those were with the SA Air Force. They were mostly based on the Rhodesian/ South African border fire force could call them at any time.

Did the South African air force fly support for the Rhodesian forces?

I was surprised by the extent to which the footage reminded me of contemporary footage of the Vietnam War.

roy elderkin · Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:14 am

The SA Air Force were there as back up should it be required. We had a number of SA Forces with us they were taught to carry out Counter Insergancey opperations. They were classed as Policeman, not SA Defence Force, Due to political pressure mainly from Brit Govt, they were withdrawn and deployed in South West Africa, but the Air Force were always waiting on the border, should an air strike be made against Rhod. That would be unlikely, Rhodesia was equipped with the latest Radar, and it controlled most of Southern Africa.

Pat Holscher · Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:35 am

The helicopters appear to be Allouettes. Quite a mix of fixed winged aircraft, from jets of the 60s to the Cessna Skymaster.

Lots of C47s.

I know that the war in Rhodesia featured an arms embargo at some point, but I was impressed by the level of equipment displayed. Was that simply a feature of the film making or was Rhodesia well equipped when the embargo came in, or was able to work around it?

Anulf · Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:58 am

The way I understand it, they had ways around the embargo. South Africa helped quite a bit when it suited them and withheld supplies when it didn't. I remember reading about where the Hueys came from but the recollection has become a little fuzzy these days. I do remember that Rhodesia received a supply of Russian made T-59 or 54 Tanks from Israel , shipped in crates marked as "Farm Tractor Parts". You eventually see Greys Scout Troopers armed with Uzis and eventually German or Iranian G-3s as well. Of course the Grey's horse were donated by South African farmers as we already know.

Steve Haupt · Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:04 am

Greetings ,
Found this on YouTube. A nice tribute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAJXak4ZgpI
Cheers,
Steve Haupt

Alex · Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:27 pm

Pat Holscher wrote:The helicopters appear to be Allouettes. Quite a mix of fixed winged aircraft, from jets of the 60s to the Cessna Skymaster.

Lots of C47s.

I know that the war in Rhodesia featured an arms embargo at some point, but I was impressed by the level of equipment displayed. Was that simply a feature of the film making or was Rhodesia well equipped when the embargo came in, or was able to work around it?

Rhodesians flew either on smuggled or old British equipment left from the colonial era. For example UHs were bought from Israel in 78 or 79, repaired, refitted and given to Fire Force (RLI). Cessnas Skymaster was bought in France and smuggled into Africa. The US government has exerted a lot of pressure on a French in try to stop selling of Cessnas Rhodies.
The film's showing mostly Fire Force training and operations - Rhodesian Light Infantry (OP Dingo), Air Force (in support of Fire Force - Vampires, Canberras, Hawkers, UH-1s, Alouettes, C-47s etc.). South Africa had gave its equipment and men to Rhodesia (but sometimes with strange and ridiculous terms and with hidden agenda). Some parts were made in Rhodesia by the guys who knew way with ruler, pencil, blowtorch and a sledge-hammer, other were fetched via smugglers and those who sympathized to Rhodesia's Cause. Jet engines which are the most costly part of an airplane were sometimes refitted by an Air Force maintenance and support from country's industry. And there's also was a cannibalism. Some equipment was not repairable and still working parts were dismantled.

Anulf · Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:42 am

I found another youtube film only this one is a three part documentary on officer training for the Rhodesian army, filmed in 1977 I believe.

In the second episode at about the 12:37 mark the Officer Cadets are sent on a six day, "adventure training" exercise with the Greys Scouts. While there is a nice introduction by a Grey's Officer and some footage of them riding through the bush like tourists in Banff, the main is kind of a '70s artistic depiction of "the lads" playing with their horses on a beach...with music...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i27hOVni0IA

roy elderkin · Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:40 pm

The Grey's Officer seen on the film was Robert "Rob" Early, who whilst serving in the Army was the author, of a book called "A Time of Madnes", Other than Grey's we both served in the Rhodesian Military Police SIB, briefly, doing separate work.

Pat Holscher · Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:25 pm

I continue to be amazed by how British, and how distinctly Rhodesian, the Rhodesian army looked. It's hard to define, but it's really the case.

The camouflage pattern is so distinctive that it's quite unique. Does anyone know the origin of it?

Anulf · Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:05 pm

I believe the Rhodesian Army Camouflage is based on the British Army DPM(Disruptive Pattern Material) .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptiv ... n_Material

I recall that the British troops training at BATUS in southern Alberta had an "arid climate" version with lighter shades of green and more browns but since the Brits have moved on to the Mulicam, I can't find any older photos on the BATUS site.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piPkpnV0rhM

Is as close as I can get.

The gist of it is. Rhodesia used a similar pattern with colours adapted from the Rhodesian area of operations. The Sri Lankan military had a very similar pattern with the colours reversed if I recall.

Anulf · Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:10 pm

BATUS in 2013. The Brits are in the new Multicam uniforms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLObyvpkwJA