Killer Viruses III. The Camp Funston Funk

[Pat Holscher]

Not really an amusing name, I suppose, for a flu that killed so many.

Anyhow, I've assumed for quite a while that it was accepted that the Spanish Flu had originated at Camp Funston. It is certainly one of the contendors. Apparently, however, there's some question on that being correct.

Anyway, I know there's been some recent efforts to genetically map the Spanish Flu strain that caused the Pandemic. And, I heard the other day, there's actually an effort to recreate it in the lab, so as to study the reasons for its leathality (hope they have some good controls there).

Anyway, in reading a recent National Geographic article on the flu (of the currently popular scary Avian flu genra that is so popular right now), I'm reminded that the 18-19 flu was probably an avian flu, that had recently mutated, and that this process probably involved a pig as the host for the human and avian varietis of flu such that they could do some DNA swapping. While that states the science poorly, this would likely mean that ducks or chickens and pigs were involved in the process that lead to the flu.

Odd to think of this in the context of Camp Funston. It isn't really related to anything in particular here, but just of note. In addition to the crowded conditions of Camp Funston, perhaps it says something about the general conditions at the time as well.

Pat

[Todd]

Originally posted by Pat Holscher
Not really an amusing name, I suppose, for a flu that killed so many.

Anyhow, I've assumed for quite a while that it was accepted that the Spanish Flu had originated at Camp Funston. It is certainly one of the contendors. Apparently, however, there's some question on that being correct.

Anyway, I know there's been some recent efforts to genetically map the Spanish Flu strain that caused the Pandemic. And, I heard the other day, there's actually an effort to recreate it in the lab, so as to study the reasons for its leathality (hope they have some good controls there).

Anyway, in reading a recent National Geographic article on the flu (of the currently popular scary Avian flu genra that is so popular right now), I'm reminded that the 18-19 flu was probably an avian flu, that had recently mutated, and that this process probably involved a pig as the host for the human and avian varietis of flu such that they could do some DNA swapping. While that states the science poorly, this would likely mean that ducks or chickens and pigs were involved in the process that lead to the flu.

Odd to think of this in the context of Camp Funston. It isn't really related to anything in particular here, but just of note. In addition to the crowded conditions of Camp Funston, perhaps it says something about the general conditions at the time as well.

Pat

Saw something about that yesterday - apparently the 1918 flu was an avian-percolated strain. They did manage to revive the virus from sample sections take from artic circle exhumations - they have live virus now at the CDC. They SAY that it wouldn't likely have nearly the same effect today, as it is a "H1N1" strain, and most flu vaccines have some element to deal with that one.

Interesting to me in that it was always thought to be swine-derived, since one of the very first soldiers at Funston to contract it was taking care of swine as part of KP detail.

Still, the idea of a pulmonary-hemmoraghic death is more than a little scary.

TH

Todd

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by Todd
Saw something about that yesterday - apparently the 1918 flu was an avian-percolated strain. They did manage to revive the virus from sample sections take from artic circle exhumations - they have live virus now at the CDC. They SAY that it wouldn't likely have nearly the same effect today, as it is a "H1N1" strain, and most flu vaccines have some element to deal with that one.

Interesting to me in that it was always thought to be swine-derived, since one of the very first soldiers at Funston to contract it was taking care of swine as part of KP detail.

Still, the idea of a pulmonary-hemmoraghic death is more than a little scary.

TH

Todd

I was not aware of the swine connection at Funston. That is interesting.

According to the National Geographic article I read, pigs are the great petrie dish of the flu. Apparently nasty flu variants can develop in birds, but never be easily transmittable to humans. But they are to pigs, for some reason. Likewise human flu variants are easily transmittable to pigs. So a pig can end up with human and avian flu virus strains at the same time. They swap some DNA, and then the avian variant can be easily transmittable to humans. Without pigs, there's little threat.

The avian flus coming out of Asia are a threat, apparently, for that very reason. Lots of Asian villagers keep chickens, and they also keep ducks. And pigs. So all the critical critters are there. Ducks, apparently, are a sleeper in the virus, as they get the avian variants but don't get as sick as chickens.

Why was a soldier taking care of pigs?


Pat

[Todd]

Fresh meat!

Todd

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by Todd
Fresh meat!

Todd

LOL!

Quite true.

Another aspect of life in a prior era that differs, for most people, from today. Soldiers today don't get meat that fresh, but likely they wouldn't know what to do with it, as most people wouldn't, if they did. Some would, of course.

Pigs are easy keepers, but they also can pass along some nasty diseases. That must have been a nightmare for Vet Corps officers.

Pat

(And talk about an era when KP really meant some serious work!)

[rayg]

I imagine it was necessary to keep live animinals for food back then in the days of no refrigeration. Some thing we take for granted today. Ray

RayG/Wisconsin

[Todd]

Another part of the WWI experience that people would think strange today, but Funston (like many of the other cantonments built at the time) was actually built by the troops themselves. Lots of very self-sufficient farm boys made for quite a different army. Also a lot of opportunity for the spread of disease among all those previously isolated hosts.

Todd

[wkambic]

By personal knowledge it's a common practice in a number of large-scale chicken raising operations to keep a herd of swine. Dead chickens are fed to the swine (a "recycling" operation, if you will). Swine, being slightly omnivorous, will eat them with relish. This is necessary as chickens are canabalistic and if you don't get the dead ones out the live ones will start killing and eating each other. In these commercial houses (often with 10,000 or more birds under one roof) there is little chicken-human interaction. They are carefully climate controlled and there is a real effort to keep contaminants out for economic reasons.

Sometimes the swine are well kept, sometimes not. I wonder if this practice has historic roots (I would bet that it does; very little goes to waste in subsistence agriculture).

Questions of personal hygene can also arise. In very crowded conditions there will likely be a lack of adquate bathing and washing facilities. Lots of nasty stuff can be transmitted by dirty hands preparing food.

I just listened to a short piece on NPR about a possible flu pandemic. The speaker noted that the spread of a virus can be world wide, overnight, with modern transportation. Development of a specific vaccine will take 6-8 months and can't even begin until the pandemic has started and we can get samples of the specific virus being active.

We humans like to delude ourselves that we are Masters of the Earth. Hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, and micro-organisms demonstrate that our arrogance can be rather misplaced.


Bill Kambic

Mangalarga Marchador: Uma raça, uma paixão

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by Todd
Another part of the WWI experience that people would think strange today, but Funston (like many of the other cantonments built at the time) was actually built by the troops themselves. Lots of very self-sufficient farm boys made for quite a different army. Also a lot of opportunity for the spread of disease among all those previously isolated hosts.

Todd

That's an excellent point.

I think at that time over half of the American populace was classified as living in "rural" areas. That didn't mean they all came from farms, as sometimes people sometimes mistakenly assume from such statistics, but it meant a lot of them did, and an awful lot of them were pretty skilled at various types of labor.

I saw this same figure once for WWI and WWII for the Canadian Army which was even higher. Very high.

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by wkambic
By personal knowledge it's a common practice in a number of large-scale chicken raising operations to keep a herd of swine. Dead chickens are fed to the swine (a "recycling" operation, if you will). Swine, being slightly omnivorous, will eat them with relish. This is necessary as chickens are canabalistic and if you don't get the dead ones out the live ones will start killing and eating each other. In these commercial houses (often with 10,000 or more birds under one roof) there is little chicken-human interaction. They are carefully climate controlled and there is a real effort to keep contaminants out for economic reasons.

Sometimes the swine are well kept, sometimes not. I wonder if this practice has historic roots (I would bet that it does; very little goes to waste in subsistence agriculture).

Questions of personal hygene can also arise. In very crowded conditions there will likely be a lack of adquate bathing and washing facilities. Lots of nasty stuff can be transmitted by dirty hands preparing food.

I just listened to a short piece on NPR about a possible flu pandemic. The speaker noted that the spread of a virus can be world wide, overnight, with modern transportation. Development of a specific vaccine will take 6-8 months and can't even begin until the pandemic has started and we can get samples of the specific virus being active.

We humans like to delude ourselves that we are Masters of the Earth. Hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, and micro-organisms demonstrate that our arrogance can be rather misplaced.


Bill Kambic

Mangalarga Marchador: Uma raça, uma paixão

Pigs, chickens and ducks are all very efficient farm stock, which in part is what makes them so attractive for this sort of agricultural enterprise. It's also in part why Asia is the source for so many flu strains, as pigs, chickens and ducks are very common there. Ducks are used for gleaning, in which they ducs are driven into harvested rice patties. Very efficient, really.

Pat

[throwback]

during the days of my kp duty, edible garbage was kept (not too) carefully seperate and collected by contractors (who paid something for it), at least at ft. jackson, ft. devens, and ft. carson, my stateside assignments. it was treated in boilers and then went to feed hogs. oftentimes the contractors were messhall staff. anyone putting a gi garbage can full of swill on to a pickup bed gets my respect.

health regulations have ended the days of boiling and feeding swill from messhalls and restaurants, i am told.

old fred funston, the namesake of the ww-1 post, was a hoot, an american edwardian adventurerer unable to lie about his height (5'4").

he puts me in mind of his contemporaries winston churchill and teddy roosevelt. funston's original commission came as a kansas volunteer colonel in the saw. mercenary revolutionary in cuba before the u.s. intervention, captor of aguinaldo in the philipine "insurection," commander of the vera cruz intervention, he probably would have been the choice to command the aef if he hadn't died of a heart attack.

[Joseph Sullivan]

Ducks are also exceptionally good at eating insect pests, as well as mollusks like slugs. Some gardeners here in the States use them for that purpose.

[Pat Holscher]

Also grisly revival for the start of Flu Season. I've heard the first few hacks and coughs around the office, and thought it was appropriate.

Pat

[JV Puleo]

I've never heard the Camp Funston theory but I have seen a special on British television that posits that the flu began in a huge British transit camp in France (the name of which I've forgotten) much earlier than is generally thought. Wartime censorship and the real reluctance to let the germans become aware that a major epidemic was racing through the allied armies kept an effective lid on the news for something like six to nine months. Its only called "Spanish" flu because, being neutral in the war, the news leaked out of Spain when the epidemic finally reached there. In the United States it looked as if it had originated there.
It was apparently highly contaigous so tracking its movement through dozens of military camps, at the height of WWI with millions of men in uniform is probably as close to impossible as anything can be.

Joe Puleo

[dallas Φ]

The Kansas Department of Health & Environment is very involved in the study of pandemic flu. I have heard two presentations recently. The Kansas Adjutant General is also involved through mobilization of the National Guard resources in the event of an emergency. The following web site gives information on the Kansas preparedness and the national efforts. Scroll down to the info on flu.
www.kdheks.gov/
Dallas

[Todd]

It's a Wikipedia reference - but interesting theory on the lethality of the 1918 flu pandemic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

[deddygetty]

After returning from WW I occupation duty in 1919, the 2nd Cavalry Regiment arrived at Ft Riley in July. I couldn't find any mention of the "Camp Funston funk", but it was noted that during the years 1922-23, Troops G & F took turns dismantling Camp Funston completely.

Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.

[mattbody]

I did recently read an alternative theory on the lethality of the flu at the end of the war being directly linked to the use of aspirin to reduce a fever. the theory states that the fever is the bodies natural way of dealing with virses as they can't stand the heat and that by taking aspirin for this purpose (which did start at the end of the war) lowers the temperature and makes the patient feel better however the patient is then unknowingly swamped by the virus which multiplys without check till it swamps their body.
While I always treat these sort of theories with a pinch of salt it does have the sound of possibility to it. For those interested I will see if I can find the original article that I refer to.

Matt

[Pat Holscher]

Originally posted by deddygetty
After returning from WW I occupation duty in 1919, the 2nd Cavalry Regiment arrived at Ft Riley in July. I couldn't find any mention of the "Camp Funston funk", but it was noted that during the years 1922-23, Troops G & F took turns dismantling Camp Funston completely.

Don't attract gunfire. It irritates the people around you.

Sorry, the "funk" addition was my own. That's not a contemporary term, to be sure (at least I think not).

Pat

[Couvi]

Pat,

Originally posted by Pat Holscher

Originally posted by wkambic
By personal knowledge it's a common practice in a number of large-scale chicken raising operations to keep a herd of swine. Dead chickens are fed to the swine (a "recycling" operation, if you will). Swine, being slightly omnivorous, will eat them with relish. This is necessary as chickens are canabalistic and if you don't get the dead ones out the live ones will start killing and eating each other. In these commercial houses (often with 10,000 or more birds under one roof) there is little chicken-human interaction. They are carefully climate controlled and there is a real effort to keep contaminants out for economic reasons.

Sometimes the swine are well kept, sometimes not. I wonder if this practice has historic roots (I would bet that it does; very little goes to waste in subsistence agriculture).

Questions of personal hygene can also arise. In very crowded conditions there will likely be a lack of adquate bathing and washing facilities. Lots of nasty stuff can be transmitted by dirty hands preparing food.

I just listened to a short piece on NPR about a possible flu pandemic. The speaker noted that the spread of a virus can be world wide, overnight, with modern transportation. Development of a specific vaccine will take 6-8 months and can't even begin until the pandemic has started and we can get samples of the specific virus being active.

We humans like to delude ourselves that we are Masters of the Earth. Hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, and micro-organisms demonstrate that our arrogance can be rather misplaced.


Bill Kambic

Mangalarga Marchador: Uma raça, uma paixão

Pigs, chickens and ducks are all very efficient farm stock, which in part is what makes them so attractive for this sort of agricultural enterprise. It's also in part why Asia is the source for so many flu strains, as pigs, chickens and ducks are very common there. Ducks are used for gleaning, in which they ducs are driven into harvested rice patties. Very efficient, really.

Pat

One avenue of transfer of avian-borne flu is that in Asia farmers keep lots of ducks. Wild ducks carrying the disease on migratory paths drop in to eat with their domestic cousins, then leave. The domestic ducks transfer the disease to their human keepers, thence to the world. This is how the Hong Kong flu got out in the mid-1970’s.

Couvi

<i>"Cavalier sans Cheval"</i>