Muli vor! GebirgsjÃ¤ger Pack Mules

Heeresbergfuhrer · Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:17 pm

Grüß Gott Mulischoffeures,
(Greetings Mule Chauffeurs),

Just wanted to introduce myself as a new member of this group. My interest is in World War II Mountain Troops and Pack Mules (all countries). My main specialty is German Gebirgstruppen. I currently have 4 packsaddles in my collection, as well as other pack mule items. I also command a World War II reenactment unit, 5./Hochgebirgsjäger Btl. 4, in the mid-Atlantic area. We do mostly living history display events. For those in the area, you should come out to the Reading, PA World War II Weekend (www.maam.org) in June. We are planning on having several mules with complete packsaddles, wicker panniers, and other gear...possibly even a Wehrmacht Field Forge. Here are a few photos of some of my Muli (Moo-LEE = German Nickname for Maultiere or mule) collection:

And here I am in the jungles of Guatemala with a true camerade:

Muli vor und Horrido!

Heeresbergführer Kiser

Couvi · Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:41 pm

Patrick,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Heeresbergführer
 Grüß Gott Mulischoffeures,
(Greetings Mule Chauffeurs),

Just wanted to introduce myself as a new member of this group. My interest is in World War II Mountain Troops and Pack Mules (all countries). My main specialty is German Gebirgstruppen. I currently have 4 packsaddles in my collection, as well as other pack mule items. I also command a World War II reenactment unit, 5./Hochgebirgsjäger Btl. 4, in the mid-Atlantic area. We do mostly living history display events. For those in the area, you should come out to the Reading, PA World War II Weekend (www.maam.org) in June. We are planning on having several mules with complete packsaddles, wicker panniers, and other gear...possibly even a Wehrmacht Field Forge. Here are a few photos of some of my Muli (Moo-LEE = German Nickname for Maultiere or mule) collection:

And here I am in the jungles of Guatemala with a true camerade:

Muli vor und Horrido!

Heeresbergführer Kiser
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Welcome. Pack mules and saddles are my field of interest, too.

Couvi

"Cavalier sans Cheval"

Philip S · Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:09 pm

Welcome Patrick:

A while ago I picked up a pack frame that appears to be the same as yours on display. I have found no stamped markings but "II Btr. 19. Monicion" was painted on one side. I have long wondered what it was. Do you have any suggestions?

Pat Holscher · Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:23 pm

What vintage is that Alpini depiction?

Pat

Heeresbergfuhrer · Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:26 pm

Servus Philip,

The packsaddle frame is for the Skoda Gebirgskanone 15. This frame design is from the First World War when Skoda started making these 75mm Mountain Cannons which were exported and licensed to most European countries and were continued through World War II. Apparently, many of these ended up in Central and South American Armies also. I got mine from another collector who got them out of one of the countries down there and has stacks of them in his warehouse!!!

Muli vor!

Heeresbergführer Kiser

Heeresbergfuhrer · Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:32 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pat Holscher
 What vintage is that Alpini depiction?

Pat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ciao Alpino Pat!

The Alpini postcard is from World War II and shows the pack mule carrying the barrel of a Skoda 75mm Mountain Cannon.

Di qui non si passa! (Alpini Motto)

Heeresbergführer Kiser

Pat Holscher · Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:58 pm

Originally posted by Couvi

Note the calkins in the mule shoes. These look just like a Swiss mule shoe that I have. It came with a bit I ordered. Unfortunately, the shoe was thrown in as a single item, with some nails. While I don't have a mule, it would have been nice if four shoes had come.

Pat

Heeresbergfuhrer · Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:22 pm

Grüß Di' Pat,

Yes, the newer looking shoe in the middle of the photo is a Swiss mule shoe...the other two are wartime German mule shoes. What is interesting between the Swiss and German shoes is that the German Calkins and shoes are threaded, but the Swiss ones aren't.

The farrier tools go with the leather pouch in the background which is the Hufbeschlagmeister's kit. And "Gr.2" is a German mule gas mask.

Horrido!

Heeresbergführer Kiser

Philip S · Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:11 am

Originally posted by Heeresbergführer
Servus Philip,

The packsaddle frame is for the Skoda Gebirgskanone 15. This frame design is from the First World War when Skoda started making these 75mm Mountain Cannons which were exported and licensed to most European countries and were continued through World War II. Apparently, many of these ended up in Central and South American Armies also. I got mine from another collector who got them out of one of the countries down there and has stacks of them in his warehouse!!!

Muli vor!

Heeresbergführer Kiser

Thanks. I got mine from someone who was selling them as Phillips Packsaddles. He still refused to change the description when I showed him pictures of a Phillips. He told me they came from a person near Johnstown, PA with a barn full of them.

Do you have pictures of how the frame was set on an animal?

Also, is Skoda Czechoslovakian?

Pat Holscher · Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:27 am

Originally posted by Heeresbergführer
Grüß Di' Pat,

Yes, the newer looking shoe in the middle of the photo is a Swiss mule shoe...the other two are wartime German mule shoes. What is interesting between the Swiss and German shoes is that the German Calkins and shoes are threaded, but the Swiss ones aren't.

The farrier tools go with the leather pouch in the background which is the Hufbeschlagmeister's kit. And "Gr.2" is a German mule gas mask.

Horrido!

Heeresbergführer Kiser

I see you managed to obtain the Swiss calkins. I assume they're just pounded in?

Pat

Heeresbergfuhrer · Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:58 pm

Originally posted by Philip S

Thanks. I got mine from someone who was selling them as Phillips Packsaddles. He still refused to change the description when I showed him pictures of a Phillips. He told me they came from a person near Johnstown, PA with a barn full of them.

Do you have pictures of how the frame was set on an animal?

Also, is Skoda Czechoslovakian?

Grüß Di' Philip,

Yes, Skoda is from the former Czechoslovakia. The Skoda packsaddle was mounted on mules much like all other European military packsaddles. Two leather and canvas pads attach to the frame which is placed over the saddle blanket on the mule, then the harnesses are attached. Here are a few fuzzy photos of the Skoda Packsaddle from Roland Kaltenegger's book "Gebirgsartillerie auf allen Kriegsschauplätzen (ISBN: 3-88014-117-7)."

***copyrighted photos...must buy the book****
(I'll go through my photo archive and see if I can find some examples of the Skoda packsaddle)

And here are a couple of shots of the GebK15 that the Skoda packsaddle was used for:

***copyrighted photos...must buy the book****

I found this GebK15 rotting away at the US Naval Academy!!!

Muli vor und Horrido!

Heeresbergführer Kiser

Coydog · Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:21 am

Nice pics. I especially like the climbing mule. Thank you muchly!

Monique MacNaughton

Stories that begin with "Last seen in a bar" generally don't end well!

Pat Holscher · Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:22 am

Are those pictures copyright clear? We have to be careful about posting photos from books, as we dont' want to violate any copyrights.

Pat

Heeresbergfuhrer · Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:19 am

Servus Pat,

I always give credit to where photos come from if they are not from my collection...but if you want me to take them off I will.

Horrido!

Heeresbergführer Kiser

Heeresbergfuhrer · Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:36 am

Originally posted by Coydog
Nice pics. I especially like the climbing mule. Thank you muchly!

Monique MacNaughton

Stories that begin with "Last seen in a bar" generally don't end well!

Grüß Di' Monique,

Here are a few more "GRAPHIC" renditions of the Gebirgsjäger Muli...

I am also doing some R&D for Dragon Models Limited out of Hong Kong. They are releasing a 1/6th scale packmule, along with my friend and Gebirgjäger veteran Fred Treiber, this summer at their Dragon Expo 2006 in Anaheim, CA. (http://www.dxpo.com/dx/06/exclusives/ex ... s-fred.asp)

Here is a photo of a Tragkorb (wicker pannier) in 1/6th scale that I am scatch building...wish I had taken that basket weaving class in college [8D]:

Muli vor!

Heeresbergführer Kiser

Pat Holscher · Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:41 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Heeresbergführer
 Servus Pat,

I always give credit to where photos come from if they are not from my collection...but if you want me to take them off I will.

Horrido!

Heeresbergführer Kiser
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The problem is that merely crediting the photos won't work. If they're copyrighted, we can't put them up without the copyright holder's permission. We have that in some specific instances, but in the case of books, that often belongs to a publisher, who justifiably is reluctant to do so without payment.

So, if the photos are from a copyrighted work, I have to regretfully ask that they not be posted, unless the poster holds permission to do so.

Pat

Heeresbergfuhrer · Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:19 pm

Grüß Gott Pat,

No problem. I fully understand the issues of copyright. I have taken the photos offline. All other photos are taken by me or are in my archive.

Mit einem kameradschaftlichen Horrido!

Patrick

Heeresbergführer Kiser

Pat Holscher · Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:51 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Heeresbergführer
 Grüß Gott Pat,

No problem. I fully understand the issues of copyright. I have taken the photos offline. All other photos are taken by me or are in my archive.

Mit einem kameradschaftlichen Horrido!

Patrick

Heeresbergführer Kiser
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks.

As noted in the copyright thread, this issue is presently before the US Supreme Court. At issue is whether or not the current US extremely long copyright period is Constitutional. Copyrights and patents are supposed to encourage commerce, by protecting intellectual endeavors. But when they lock it up for all time, the argument is, they serve the opposite purpose.

Pat

Coydog · Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:41 pm

Those are some great drawings, and weaving that pannier so small must have been a pain on the fingers. I'd love to see the models when those come out. Thanks again!

Monique MacNaughton

Stories that begin with "Last seen in a bar" generally don't end well!

Couvi · Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:55 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Heeresbergführer
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I found this GebK15 rotting away at the US Naval Acadamy!!!

Muli vor und Horrido!

Heeresbergführer Kiser
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Note the enormous size of the tube in relation the carriage. This was to offset the recoil. The US Pack 75 had a lead weight cast over the upper recoil mechanism to absorb some of the recoil.

Couvi

"Cavalier sans Cheval"