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German M25 Cavalry saddle Questions
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:55 pm
by pzjgr
Hello all, new to the board, found it while searching for info on the German M1925 Cavalry saddle. On to the questions...I am a serious WWII German combat equipment collector, and have just com into possesion of a complete M1925 saddle set up. The saddle itself was made in Hannover in 1939 and is nicely marked and WaffenAmted. It is complete with cord belly strap, stirrups, saddle bag connector, and a matched pair of saddlebags. My questions are...is there a good reference or can someone point me in the right direction as to the proper assembly of all the pieces? My reference books have very little in them on cavalry tack...I have the Schiffer "Equipment of the German Cavalry" but it doesn't do a good job of showing the saddle assembly. What is the best way to display a saddle set-up? (kind of basic I know, but I've never owned a saddle before, I was thinking maybe a quilt rack?). What would a complete set up like this be worth? (it is is good to very good shape I would say, saddle is complete with all straps and attachments as far as I can tell, one saddle bag is missing its leather and metal securing tab, leather is soft and pliable) and like I said, since one saddle bag is missing its leather and metal securing tab, does anyone know of any replacements for sale...something I can use to secure the bag to the connector? Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give me...
Armeesattel 25
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:33 am
by Pat Holscher
Originally posted by pzjgr
Hello all, new to the board, found it while searching for info on the German M1925 Cavalry saddle. On to the questions...I am a serious WWII German combat equipment collector, and have just com into possesion of a complete M1925 saddle set up. The saddle itself was made in Hannover in 1939 and is nicely marked and WaffenAmted. It is complete with cord belly strap, stirrups, saddle bag connector, and a matched pair of saddlebags. My questions are...is there a good reference or can someone point me in the right direction as to the proper assembly of all the pieces? My reference books have very little in them on cavalry tack...I have the Schiffer "Equipment of the German Cavalry" but it doesn't do a good job of showing the saddle assembly. What is the best way to display a saddle set-up? (kind of basic I know, but I've never owned a saddle before, I was thinking maybe a quilt rack?). What would a complete set up like this be worth? (it is is good to very good shape I would say, saddle is complete with all straps and attachments as far as I can tell, one saddle bag is missing its leather and metal securing tab, leather is soft and pliable) and like I said, since one saddle bag is missing its leather and metal securing tab, does anyone know of any replacements for sale...something I can use to secure the bag to the connector? Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give me...
One of the participants here is extremely knowledgeable on this topic. However, he's a serving Army officer and is often absent for various periods.
You mentioned the Schiffer book. I believe there is one more. Frankly neither will help you much. I believe there's an old German text around, but I don't have it, and only have heard of it.
Otherwise, your best bet is simply to observe photos here and there, and use the books you have. When Uhlan1916 checks in, chances are he will know the answers to any questions you might have.
Pat
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:48 am
by Paul E. Hanson
The other hb Schiffer book is Cavalry of the Wehrmacht 1941-1945 also by Richter and has much more info on equipment then his pamphlet.
Paul Hanson
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:35 pm
by Mich
I've though about putting together a M25 rig. Can anybody give me an idae what the going proces are for the various pieces?
Cheers
Mich
Armeesattel 25
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:43 am
by janemoyle
I have a saddle in my posession which I believe to be a German World War II saddle. It is marked "Otto Sindel" and Berlin 1942.
I would like to know if there is any market for this and if so, what the value would be, plus are there any interested parties out there who would like to contribute to my wedding fund by purchasing it!!! (Help, How do I post images into my message?
Jane
Armeesattel 25
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:47 am
by Todd
Sounds like a Armesattel 25 - Sindel was a maker's name I've seen on these before. Best bet for getting an idea of what these sell for is to do a search for "german army saddle" or "german cavalry saddle" in the completed listings through eBay. Ebay would likely be your best outlet for sale as well.
Todd
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:20 am
by janemoyle
Thanks Todd. I'd send photo's but I don't know how to post them!
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:54 pm
by steenie
How much do u want for it?
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:44 am
by janemoyle
As much as I can Get Steenie! Unsure as to it's value really, I've been unable to gain a lot of information about it. I suppose I'd be open to reasonable offers.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:45 am
by janemoyle
I can e-mail photographs if you wish.
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:48 pm
by patbailey
I am wondering what size your saddle is. On the back of the cantle the size should be stamped, both on the leather seat and on the tree. The number should be between 1 and 5. Also, what shape is the saddle in? Are the stirrups and leathers still on? Are the pads on the bottom in good shape or torn and leaking stuffing?Is the woven-cord girth still with it?
By the way, if you should decide to keep it (and get it seen to by a good saddler), the Armeesattel 25 is a very comfortable saddle to ride. I have been using one for about a year, and am very happy with it.
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:03 pm
by steenie
please do send some pics that would be helpful
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:57 pm
by janemoyle
Hi I'm not sure what size it is. I'll have to take it apart again to have a look, but the number 4 does ring a bell. It is in really good condition. There do not appear to be any holes in it and there is no stuffing coming our. Unfortunately there are no stirrup irons or girths. I would post photographs on the site but don't know how to, unless you can advise me of how to do this, I can always e-mail them to you
Armeesattel 25
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:58 pm
by Pat Holscher
We have some old threads on the German Armeesattel 25, but I can't find them immediately. They may be archived in one of the older forum. Anyhow, what with Tom having found the website with all the photos of German equipment, I thought I'd start a new one. If I find the older ones, I'll roll them into here.
Anyhow, I'd like to learn more about these. The old thread detailed their history, and I understand that the Armeesattel 25 was the last in a series of similiar designs, and it's related to saddles used by some other nations. More information is welcome. It was an important military saddle.
Re: Armeesattel 25
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:36 pm
by Pat Holscher
This seems as good of place to start as any. Here's a photo, form the site mentioned, of an Armeesattel 25:
http://i28.tinypic.com/23ku2b4.jpg
The text provides, in regards to sizes:
Größe 2 ist für kleinrahmige, schmalgerippte Pferde mit gebogenem Rücken (leichte Warmblüter, Halbblüter)
Größe 1 wäre für selbige mit geradem Rücken (Vollblüter, Araber, Reitponies)
Größe 3 für breitgerippte Pferde (Warmblüter)
Größe 4 für selbige mit gebogenem Rücken (schwere Warmblüter)
Größe 5 für Kalblüter und Pferde mit Senkrücken
We can take from that, I think, that size no. 1 was the smallest, and size no. 5 the largest.
Re: Armeesattel 25
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:46 pm
by Pat Holscher
An Armeesattel 25 in current use:
http://i28.tinypic.com/23wp65t.jpg
The text, in part, provides:
Haggard trägt hier übrigens einen Armeesattel 25 in der Größe 1. Der Sattel war laut Vorbesitzer im Kav.Reg. 15 in Paderborn im Einsatz.
I'm rusty on this, but I think this states that "Haggard (the horse's name) is wearing here an Armeesattel 25 in size 1." The saddle was apparently used by Kavallrie Regiment 15, which was stationed, I think, in Paderborn. At least I think that's what it says, and I'd be curious if that's correct.
As a total aside, Paderborn was the town in Germany where the Holscher's came from (although I'm only 1/4 German by descent, that being quite a while back).
Re: Armeesattel 25
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:44 pm
by Tom Muller
Pat,
your translation is spot on!
Tom
Re: Armeesattel 25
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:36 am
by Pat Holscher
Tom Muller wrote:Pat,
your translation is spot on!
Tom
That's a relief. My German is so rusty that my confidence in any of my translations is pretty low.
Re: Armeesattel 25
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:37 am
by Pat Holscher
Jan recently provided us this photo, for the users horse and tack thread. A nice example of a horse tacked up with an Armeesattel 25:
Re: Armeesattel 25
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:22 pm
by Pat Holscher
Pat Holscher wrote:An Armeesattel 25 in current use:
http://i28.tinypic.com/23wp65t.jpg
The text, in part, provides:
Haggard trägt hier übrigens einen Armeesattel 25 in der Größe 1. Der Sattel war laut Vorbesitzer im Kav.Reg. 15 in Paderborn im Einsatz.
I'm rusty on this, but I think this states that "Haggard (the horse's name) is wearing here an Armeesattel 25 in size 1." The saddle was apparently used by Kavallrie Regiment 15, which was stationed, I think, in Paderborn. At least I think that's what it says, and I'd be curious if that's correct.
As a total aside, Paderborn was the town in Germany where the Holscher's came from (although I'm only 1/4 German by descent, that being quite a while back).
