Hi my father has a 1941, model 1928 (I think) McClellan cavalry saddle. He would like to know how much its worth and any history or information anyone might have on it it. Here is a link to the photos I have taken of it. I hope that it works. I haven't done this before and couldn't just copy the photos on here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/188368171@N02/? Any information anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
M1928 McClellan cavalry saddle questions
Hi!
First and foremost, a nice WW2 vintage M1928 McClellan. It's in relatively complete condition, which is noteworthy these days. I've screen grabbed a few images that I'll use to point out what I think is interesting about this one.
This mark I believe I've seen before - the contractor name/initials are very faint, might be 'H & G' ( Harbison & Gathright, Louisville, Ky. ), 1918 (date of manufacture for the original 1904 pattern that M1928s were made from), and the sub-inspectors initials. I've seen many of those 'F.C.K.' inspectors stamps over the years, so it was one of the larger contractors.
First and foremost, a nice WW2 vintage M1928 McClellan. It's in relatively complete condition, which is noteworthy these days. I've screen grabbed a few images that I'll use to point out what I think is interesting about this one.
- 1928_1_gm_600.png (616.21 KiB) Viewed 33310 times
The bottom side of a 1928 shows a lot of the detail that went into a modification - all the old rigging was replaced with the english style girth webbing and billets, as well as the skirts and hard felt pads.
These dense felt pads were a big improvement over the original sheepskin linings, as they were much easier to keep clean and much more durable. Cheaper too.
- 1928_4_600_gm.png (800.54 KiB) Viewed 33310 times
The skirts, girth webbing with billets, some 'fillet' pieces hidden under the cover and the felt pads were the parts sent out by Jeffersonville Quartermaster Depot (JQMD), in kits used by unit-level saddlers to modify war surplus saddles. Hence the 'JQMD' stamps on the girth billets.
- 1928_3_gm.PNG (668.14 KiB) Viewed 33310 times
To make the '28 modifications, the outside seam of the sidebars had to be opened up all the way from the front to the rear gullet arches. These were re-stitched by hand by the unit saddlers when they were done. Earlier mods, in the early to mid-1930s, you find they stitched every hole. Later '30s and especially '40s vintage modifications like this one, you see them stitching every other hole.
In earlier mods, the old rigging straps were stitched into this seam, but most later ones were just rounded off and nailed or screwed down, like this one.
In earlier mods, the old rigging straps were stitched into this seam, but most later ones were just rounded off and nailed or screwed down, like this one.
- 1928_6_gm.PNG (1.17 MiB) Viewed 33310 times
The stirrups on a standard '28 modification were the original hooded leather stirrups from the wartime saddle, with the leather removed, and the wood frame run through a bandsaw to reduce the width of the tread.
You see wide variation in these, depending on the concept of what should be sawn off in the mind of the operator. I've seen really narrow treads where they just ran the blade through the 'C'-shaped reinforcement metal, and many like this one, where they left the tread a little wider by avoiding most of the metal.
You see wide variation in these, depending on the concept of what should be sawn off in the mind of the operator. I've seen really narrow treads where they just ran the blade through the 'C'-shaped reinforcement metal, and many like this one, where they left the tread a little wider by avoiding most of the metal.
- 1928_7_gm.PNG (1.54 MiB) Viewed 33310 times
The JQMD also issued in small numbers a new wooden stirrup that was very much like the bandsawed surplus versions, called the M1940 stirrup. I don't believe these were included in the kits until well into WW2 (1942/43). They may also have been used as replacements for broken and 'unsuccessful conversions'. This is one of those M1940s - interesting to see the mix of types on one saddle:
- 1928_2_gm.PNG (1.22 MiB) Viewed 33310 times
The stirrups straps are actually one of the more valuable parts of the saddle, and should be left as is ( don't try to oil, condition, etc., and keep all handling to a minimum to keep them intact). They appear to be the later 1928 type, with brass roller buckles and a doubled section where they were around the stirrup. The brass spots are, of course, post-military additions someone made.
The original M1904 stirrup straps were horrible, and were being modified by cavalry regiments as early as 1920/22. The kit did not include these straps, as they were either modified as part of earlier standard practices/orders, or new replacements (such as these) were requisitioned through usual methods.
The original M1904 stirrup straps were horrible, and were being modified by cavalry regiments as early as 1920/22. The kit did not include these straps, as they were either modified as part of earlier standard practices/orders, or new replacements (such as these) were requisitioned through usual methods.
- 1928_6_gm.PNG (1.17 MiB) Viewed 33310 times
If you have an opportunity to do some more digging, and find an english style string girth, or one made with six strands of webbing about 1/2" wide, that may be the original girth for the saddle. Its worth looking for, as that's one of the most difficult to find parts, and quite valuable. Like, as worth as much as the rest of the saddle.
Web girth - from JQMD drawing
Mohair string girth with saddlebag strap dee-rings - from JQMD drawing
In general, the saddle is overall in very nice condition, no open seams, relatively little usage from the looks of it (probably because of the small size). 11" seats were the smallest made.
As far as value goes, I just don't like making those kinds of guesses. Depends a lot on what the current market looks like, and the only really accurate place I can think of to find comparables is old eBay results.
I would recommend NOT doing anything to make the leather look better, or "ready to ride", as a collector will want to manage that part themselves. More damage happens from that process than any other.
NO NEATSFOOT OIL OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT!
For one that is so complete, it would be better as a display piece than to be ridden. A good dusting with a soft brush would be suitable.
- web_girth_1928.PNG (114.76 KiB) Viewed 33299 times
- mohair_girth_mil.PNG (211.39 KiB) Viewed 33299 times
In general, the saddle is overall in very nice condition, no open seams, relatively little usage from the looks of it (probably because of the small size). 11" seats were the smallest made.
As far as value goes, I just don't like making those kinds of guesses. Depends a lot on what the current market looks like, and the only really accurate place I can think of to find comparables is old eBay results.
I would recommend NOT doing anything to make the leather look better, or "ready to ride", as a collector will want to manage that part themselves. More damage happens from that process than any other.
NO NEATSFOOT OIL OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT!
For one that is so complete, it would be better as a display piece than to be ridden. A good dusting with a soft brush would be suitable.
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JBberoad
Wow thank you so much for the information. I will print it off (if I can) and take it out to my father. He has lost most of his eye site and can't read anymore but if we bring the saddle out and go over it all he will understand it all better than me. He has had the saddle for many years and will be very pleased to learn more about it.
Thank you!
Thank you!
Found a decent example of what is likely a pre-WW2 M1928 - shows the variations with seam closure stitching, modified original stirrup straps, and enthusiastic band-sawed stirrups. The arrangement of the stirrup straps inside the skirts shown here is not correct - they would have hung on the outside of the skirt.
- early_1928_600w.png (1.17 MiB) Viewed 33287 times
And a look at the M1904 hooded wooden stirrups modified to the M1928 specifications - sawed right through the sheet metal reinforcements. You can see the large frame brass stirrup buckles from the M1904 stirrups - the doubled section was usually removed so that the straps wouldn't always hang from the same place on the strap, and the odd twist design meant to hold the heavy stirrups in a face-forward position was no longer used.
- early_1928_stirrups_straps.png (1.11 MiB) Viewed 33287 times
You're most welcome - the M1928's are interesting critters. My obsession with old cav gear started with an old M1928 purchased at a farm auction many years ago - I remember how exotic it was at the time. 
Fifty plus years ago I purchased a complete modification set of items to convert a '04 to a '28 from a friend in GA. The set consisted of two fenders, with holes already punched for resewing, two web girth billets with three straps each, four thin leather pieces that were skived on one side and a set of instructions on how to make the conversion. The friend got them for me from a surplus dealer in a place called "Underground Atlanta."
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Joseph Sullivan
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Late in the game, the army produced stirrups specifically for the M1928 modification. I've had a couple of pair over the years including one unissued pair I sold last year. I am 1300 miles from my office and the photo files, but am under the impression that they were stamped 1941.
Interestingly, in my hunting days the army's 1928 pattern of stirrup leather turned up much more frequently than the older '04. One might surmise that they were made too late to be used, but then, the thousands of unissued M1904 saddles and stirrup leathers stocked up for the WW1 horse actions that never came should have been much more abundant. Anyhow, when I was thinning out last year, I had an abundance of leftover leathers. I am under the impression that I had 5 - 6 sets of 1928s, and 3 of 1904 contractor model, 1 of 1904 1st pattern with stirrups, and 2 pairs of 19th century leathers of all models (not including the ones on the 1859 I kept).
I have found that the later 19th century leathers, and the saddles too, t are very prone to red rot. Todd may know what changed, but that has not been the case with most of the very large numbers of 20th century equipments I have handled or owned. That said, I've owned several later 19th century bridles and while some have bee weak, they in general have held up better than the McClellan saddles and leathers.
Interestingly, in my hunting days the army's 1928 pattern of stirrup leather turned up much more frequently than the older '04. One might surmise that they were made too late to be used, but then, the thousands of unissued M1904 saddles and stirrup leathers stocked up for the WW1 horse actions that never came should have been much more abundant. Anyhow, when I was thinning out last year, I had an abundance of leftover leathers. I am under the impression that I had 5 - 6 sets of 1928s, and 3 of 1904 contractor model, 1 of 1904 1st pattern with stirrups, and 2 pairs of 19th century leathers of all models (not including the ones on the 1859 I kept).
I have found that the later 19th century leathers, and the saddles too, t are very prone to red rot. Todd may know what changed, but that has not been the case with most of the very large numbers of 20th century equipments I have handled or owned. That said, I've owned several later 19th century bridles and while some have bee weak, they in general have held up better than the McClellan saddles and leathers.