Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:16 am
Capt. B.D. Foulois and Lieut. J.E. Carberry picked up by Mexican along road after their aeroplane had fallen 1500 feet - Mexican-U.S. Campaign after Villa, 1916
Forums at Society of the Military Horse
The forums are closed - content is for archival purposes only
https://www.militaryhorse.org/forum/
Aircraft crew recovery
Page 1 of 1
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:24 pm
I wonder if they helped him out of hatred of the rebels or out of hope for a reward, I have trouble believing they brought him back to American lines just because it was the right thing to do.
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:16 am
If I recall correctly, the Curtiss JN-4 had four horsepower more than necessary for take-off at the altitude of Columbus, NM.. One misfiring cylinder could bring one down.Pat Holscher wrote:Capt. B.D. Foulois and Lieut. J.E. Carberry picked up by Mexican along road after their aeroplane had fallen 1500 feet - Mexican-U.S. Campaign after Villa, 1916
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:32 am
One of those JN4s in action.
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:18 am
The aircraft were under powered, had serious "de-lamination" problems with glued parts due to the very dry climate, and navigation was iffy due to poor charts. It took some "intestinal fortitude" to operate in that environment. It also took a while for ground commanders to figure out how to effectively use the aircraft to best advantage. Still, overall, the experience was essential in the building of the Army Air Service.
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:44 am
On the photo above, I wish I knew more about the circumstances of the photo. The terrain is flat, and the plane is probably taking off or landing, but it was also the case that part of the time in Mexico the plane was darned near at its service ceiling as soon as it was airborne.wkambic wrote:The aircraft were under powered, had serious "de-lamination" problems with glued parts due to the very dry climate, and navigation was iffy due to poor charts. It took some "intestinal fortitude" to operate in that environment. It also took a while for ground commanders to figure out how to effectively use the aircraft to best advantage. Still, overall, the experience was essential in the building of the Army Air Service.
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:10 pm
I'm sure that's true about "service ceiling." We were way behind the Europeans at that point in aircraft development.
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:10 pm
The 1st Aero Squadron left Fort Sill for Columbus, NM, and followed the roads and railroads to get to their destination. They lost about half the planes en-route. They had to soak the propellers in horse troughs to preserve lamination. Pilots were required to wear spurs. It was a strange way of waging war.
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm
Was Ft. Sill their regular duty station?Couvi wrote:The 1st Aero Squadron left Fort Sill for Columbus, NM, and followed the roads and railroads to get to their destination. They lost about half the planes en-route. They had to soak the propellers in horse troughs to preserve lamination. Pilots were required to wear spurs. It was a strange way of waging war.
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:52 am
Fort Sill was its first permanent duty station and it was at the time a Signal Corps unit. Fort Sill was also the home of the first Army Aviation School, teaching both fixed - wing and lighter-than air pilots. There is still an enormous balloon hangar at Post Field.Pat Holscher wrote:Was Ft. Sill their regular duty station?Couvi wrote:The 1st Aero Squadron left Fort Sill for Columbus, NM, and followed the roads and railroads to get to their destination. They lost about half the planes en-route. They had to soak the propellers in horse troughs to preserve lamination. Pilots were required to wear spurs. It was a strange way of waging war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Reconn ... Mexico.jpg
The 1st Aero Squadron’s facilities at Columbus, New Mexico, 1916 (Sorry, but I was not able to get the image to come up.)
1st Aero Squadron on the Mexican US border, 19 or 20 March 1916. The third plane in line, S.C. No. 48, crashed late on the morning of 20 March in Mexico.
"Fort Sill also contains the birthplace of military combat aviation, located at the parade field at the Old Post Quadrangle at Fort Sill.
Here, the 1st Aero Squadron, under Captain Benjamin D. Foulois, uncrated their new, disassembled airplanes and put them together in 1915. They then pushed their Curtiss JN-2 planes down hill to the Polo field. On 10 August, they made their first flights.
Unfortunately, the first airplane accident came just two days later, on 12 August 1915. Lt. Rondondo B. Sutton, the pilot, was hospitalized, but his passenger, Captain George H. Knox, the paymaster of Fort Sill, was killed. According to the Lawton Constitution newspaper article, there was a large crowd of civilians at the field to see the aircraft in flight – and were, consequently, there to see the results of the accident. The large crowd of men, women and children were horrified, according to the paper. Soon after, on 5 September, another plane was lost in a second crash, after which Foulois grounded the remaining planes out of concern for safety."
Balloon hangar at Post Field, Fort Sill. I was once threatened with having to paint the exterior!
"Henry Post Army Airfield was the first home of all Army Aviation Training after World War II before moving to Fort Rucker, Alabama in 1954. It is a very historic airfield. There is still a balloon hangar, transported by rail cars from Moffett Field (Navy) in California and reassembled at Fort Sill in 1935. The balloon hangar is now the home of Fort Sill Museum Aviation Annex and is listed as a Historic Landmark."
Three 5,000 cubic feet Nurse Balloons in Hangar. Fort Sill, Oklahoma, May 1, 1918. Note the individual wearing overalls.
The area currently containing Post Field was a horse pasture and was raided by the Comanches. There are Native American members of the Dutch Reform Church buried on the south-east corner of the field.
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:25 am
I recall there being a runway at Ft. Sill that was still in use in the 80s. Is it still in use, and is that Henry Post Field? Is it now an Army, or an Air Force, facility?Couvi wrote: "Henry Post Army Airfield was the first home of all Army Aviation Training after World War II before moving to Fort Rucker, Alabama in 1954. It is a very historic airfield. There is still a balloon hangar, transported by rail cars from Moffett Field (Navy) in California and reassembled at Fort Sill in 1935. The balloon hangar is now the home of Fort Sill Museum Aviation Annex and is listed as a Historic Landmark."
On training accidents, it sounds horrific but I just ran across a statistic for the USAAF's Casper Air Base during World War Two. That huge facility was a training base for B17 and B24 crewmen during World War Two, and its now the Natrona County International Airport. It was actually bigger as an air base, as two of the runways are no longer used. They runways are incredibly long.
Anyhow, I was surprised to read that 150 airmen died during the war at the base in 90 crashes. That's something like a crash every 16 days during the period in which it was in operation.
Re: Aircraft crew recovery
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:52 am
Henry Post Army Airfield is still in use.Pat Holscher wrote:I recall there being a runway at Ft. Sill that was still in use in the 80s. Is it still in use, and is that Henry Post Field? Is it now an Army, or an Air Force, facility?Couvi wrote: "Henry Post Army Airfield was the first home of all Army Aviation Training after World War II before moving to Fort Rucker, Alabama in 1954. It is a very historic airfield. There is still a balloon hangar, transported by rail cars from Moffett Field (Navy) in California and reassembled at Fort Sill in 1935. The balloon hangar is now the home of Fort Sill Museum Aviation Annex and is listed as a Historic Landmark."
On training accidents, it sounds horrific but I just ran across a statistic for the USAAF's Casper Air Base during World War Two. That huge facility was a training base for B17 and B24 crewmen during World War Two, and its now the Natrona County International Airport. It was actually bigger as an air base, as two of the runways are no longer used. They runways are incredibly long.
Anyhow, I was surprised to read that 150 airmen died during the war at the base in 90 crashes. That's something like a crash every 16 days during the period in which it was in operation.