Forums at The Military Horse

Philip mentioned this occurring in a long archived thread, and here's a photographic example.

It must be his birthday! Do Marines have "pony parties"?

Interesting bridle . . some kind of mechanical hackamore?

Fossilhorse wrote:Interesting bridle . . some kind of mechanical hackamore?

Hard to tell but it doesn't appear to me to be a leverage bit. One to one I'd say.

Sandy

It reminds me of a mecate and bosul, or maybe a mechanical hackimore.

One ugly pony, I'd note, but ugly primitive ponies seem to have been a Japanese indigenous equine.

Indeed that pony is not a looker. Does atually remind me of the ponies of the Mongolian Stepp . . . . small and shortly proportioned but strong and sure footed.

Fossilhorse wrote:Indeed that pony is not a looker. Does atually remind me of the ponies of the Mongolian Stepp . . . . small and shortly proportioned but strong and sure footed.

Various Japanese breeds generally seem to have some really primitive traits. I wonder to what extent they are related to Mongolian horses?

Pat Holscher wrote:

Fossilhorse wrote:Indeed that pony is not a looker. Does atually remind me of the ponies of the Mongolian Stepp . . . . small and shortly proportioned but strong and sure footed.

Various Japanese breeds generally seem to have some really primitive traits. I wonder to what extent they are related to Mongolian horses?

I read once that in the China Relief Expedition that the US Army studied everyone else’s equipment.
One item of note was that the Japanese packed on small stud horses. That just seems to me to be a recipe for disaster.

I read once that in the China Relief Expedition that the US Army studied everyone else’s equipment.
One item of note was that the Japanese packed on small stud horses. That just seems to me to be a recipe for disaster.

One would hope that the supply train never had to march passed a farm full of brood mares

Fossilhorse wrote:

I read once that in the China Relief Expedition that the US Army studied everyone else’s equipment.
One item of note was that the Japanese packed on small stud horses. That just seems to me to be a recipe for disaster.

One would hope that the supply train never had to march passed a farm full of brood mares

It would seem to me that one mare in season could disrupt an entire supply column.

Some equine cultures are/were based on riding stallions. We went to Brazil some years back and, in general, stallions were for riding and mares were for breeding and geldings were unknown.

To be more precise, ordinary stallions were ridden, elite stallions were kept for breeding, and if a stallion was gelded it was because of a serious conformation or temperament issue. Women rode stallions, too, although it was socially acceptable for a woman to ride a mare. A man who rode a mare, unless he was a trainer, got an "eyebrow."

It's my understanding that in Iberian horse cultures this is common.

I took our stallion to breed competition in 2012 and the stallions were in one side of a large arena and mares in the other. There were only three stallions present but there were no issues. To ensure there would not be issues I used a bit of Vicks Vaporub in each nostril. This is pretty common with folks who do ride stallions in public venues (although I'm not sure how many will admit it; it rather detracts from the "macho image" that riding a stallion generates ).

So maybe if the stallions were well trained it would be less of an issue?

Solid training may make the real difference. I once knew a Morgan stallion who would act like a perfect gentleman around mares, even when in heat, until the handler put the stud chain in his mouth. Then he knew that it was time to go to work - and it was "Katy bar the door"!

Central Asian culture is also one where stallions are ridden and mares bred. Living in Turkmenistan, all I rode were stallions and, with one exception, they were all gentleman including around mares. Interesting side note, there was an American women there who thought it was appalling not to have geldings and decided to show the locals that gelding was fine. So she had her horse gelded. It turned out she did not own an Akhal Teke, as she thought, but a Yomud. Of which I believe there are less than a 1000 remaining and, according to the Turkmen, her Yomud was one of the finer examples. I do love ideology when it is mixed with ignorance.

wkambic wrote:Some equine cultures are/were based on riding stallions. We went to Brazil some years back and, in general, stallions were for riding and mares were for breeding and geldings were unknown.

To be more precise, ordinary stallions were ridden, elite stallions were kept for breeding, and if a stallion was gelded it was because of a serious conformation or temperament issue. Women rode stallions, too, although it was socially acceptable for a woman to ride a mare. A man who rode a mare, unless he was a trainer, got an "eyebrow."

It's my understanding that in Iberian horse cultures this is common.

I took our stallion to breed competition in 2012 and the stallions were in one side of a large arena and mares in the other. There were only three stallions present but there were no issues. To ensure there would not be issues I used a bit of Vicks Vaporub in each nostril. This is pretty common with folks who do ride stallions in public venues (although I'm not sure how many will admit it; it rather detracts from the "macho image" that riding a stallion generates ).

So maybe if the stallions were well trained it would be less of an issue?

Would there be any advantage in the carrying power of stallions as opposed to geldings for packing?

Bernal Diaz in his book, The Conquest of New Spain, speaks of troops riding stallions. I guess it is a regional thing.

Couvi wrote:

wkambic wrote:Some equine cultures are/were based on riding stallions. We went to Brazil some years back and, in general, stallions were for riding and mares were for breeding and geldings were unknown.

To be more precise, ordinary stallions were ridden, elite stallions were kept for breeding, and if a stallion was gelded it was because of a serious conformation or temperament issue. Women rode stallions, too, although it was socially acceptable for a woman to ride a mare. A man who rode a mare, unless he was a trainer, got an "eyebrow."

It's my understanding that in Iberian horse cultures this is common.

I took our stallion to breed competition in 2012 and the stallions were in one side of a large arena and mares in the other. There were only three stallions present but there were no issues. To ensure there would not be issues I used a bit of Vicks Vaporub in each nostril. This is pretty common with folks who do ride stallions in public venues (although I'm not sure how many will admit it; it rather detracts from the "macho image" that riding a stallion generates ).

So maybe if the stallions were well trained it would be less of an issue?

Would there be any advantage in the carrying power of stallions as opposed to geldings for packing?

Bernal Diaz in his book, The Conquest of New Spain, speaks of troops riding stallions. I guess it is a regional thing.

I think it's very much a cultural thing. There's a very good book entitled The Spanish Frontier in North America by David Weber. He does not directly discuss the equine culture, but he does refer to the importance of equine use in Spanish society. He also discusses some of the cultural aspects that come from Spain and how these play out on the Spanish Frontier. In the Iberian world (which includes Portugal, the mother country of Brazil which is the home of our breed) stallions are for riding and mares are for breeding. That's the way it is. Stallions are very well trained as riding horses. In 2003 we visited several Brazilian breeding farms and when we had the chance to ride their demonstration horses they were all stallions. They were all very well trained. Our stallion, imported from Brazil in 2001, was very well trained and pretty responsible around mares. If he had a weakness it was likely his rider (me)!

Then there's the Spanish Riding School. 'Nuff said on that?!?!?!

The cultural assumption is that the stallion is stronger, more aggressive, and more "warlike." It's been my experience with both Walkers and Marchadors, that gelding does NOT alter basic temperament. What it does is remove the "fuel" from that temperament. This allows the human to more easily get a young stallion's attention and impart the training that they require. It also simplifies herd management. If you have a strong, aggressive, warlike stallion you'll have the same basic characteristics in a gelding. Again, I'd bet that most breeders in any breed would agree with this.

In the Anglo horse culture gelding surplus stallions is the rule. All the major disciplines in the U.S. have a strong policy of restrictions on stallions. Few organized trail rides allow them. They are generally not permitted on the hunt field. Mixed classes in horse shows are vanishingly rare. Anglo equine society had their reasons for this and I'm sure they thought them quite valid.

IMO, based upon my personal experience and my reading, the preference for stallions over geldings is cultural and probably has no real operational advantages. Or, if there are some, they're pretty small. Of course someone from the Iberian culture might disagree with me! That's just fine as, like beauty, this preference may well be something that lies in the eye of the beholder.

Perhaps some of our number from Iberian cultures could comment on their view on the question. Do we have who could comment on Asian cultures?