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Re: A look at one of the early replacements for the horse
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:16 pm
by John M Φ
Pat Holscher wrote:Gordon_M wrote:That's nice Pat, but a bit modern, technically armoured cavalry though.
The thread isn't for the faint-hearted, being 83 pages at the minute, so make the tea / coffee first. If that sort of thing interests you you can go upwards in the same forum and find the Pre-WW2 Vehicle section which has other similar threads, including some US content.
Gordon
( straight back to the garage to work on the telephone trailer )
Wow! Great stuff! Thanks for linking it in. It will take some time to study, but it's well worth it!
Amazing..! That family is to be congratulated.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:33 pm
by Pat Holscher
Gordon_M wrote:I'm liking the little Cushman Airborne and Package Cart, Pat.
You don't have to feed them, and if they get sick you can fix them when you get round to it.
Gordon
To what extent were those actually used? I knew they existed, but I've never known if they actually saw much use.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:34 am
by Gordon_M
I think they saw a lot of use, Pat, but don't have any figures.
I think the airborne scooters were only used in their intended role in Europe, howver I think they were used extensively as admin runabouts, and all the air bases and so on had the little package carts.
Gordon
Re:
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:25 am
by Pat Holscher
Pat Holscher wrote:Originally posted by John Ruf
Logistically, it must have been a great improvement; imagine the logistical tail for the horses and drivers to pull that 155, demands that remained fairly constant whether the piece was static or not, and compare it to the logistical footprint of the tractor. I imagine it adds up to much less fuel than forage!
I'd guess that's correct, but I've never been able to find any reliable figures on that.
I'd guess it must be capable of a rational comparison, although a lot of factors regarding it that at first my seem important might later prove not to be, but try as I might, I have not been able to find any figures comparing the logistical tails of motorized units with those of horse drawn units.
This is probably a poor place to post it, but for some reason it really occurred to me for the first time that our logistical expenditures for the current war in Afghanistan must be at an all time global record.
Just think of it, an Army fighting a war in a landlocked distant nation, that is supplied principally by air or by hired contractor covoys through a neighboring country. The per man expenditures must be enormous.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:16 am
by Pat Holscher
Hmmm. . . .
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infoc ... 270453.jpg
he Royal Irish Fusiliers of the British expeditionary forces come to the aid of French farmers whose horses have been commandeered by the French Army. A tank is hitched to a plow to help with the spring tilling of the soil on March 27, 1940
1919 Transcontinental Motor Convoy
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:54 am
by Pat Holscher
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:12 am
by tmarsh
Did not Esinhower go on this trip across the country? Tom
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:18 am
by Pat Holscher
tmarsh wrote:Did not Esinhower go on this trip across the country? Tom
He was its field CO.
Re: 1919 Transcontinental Motor Convoy
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:11 pm
by Couvi
I don’t know enough about the trucks to identify them, but the tractor is a 2 ½-ton Holt.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:32 am
by Pat Holscher
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:31 am
by Pat Holscher
https://sphotos-a-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho ... 2519_n.jpg
National Park Service motorcycle, used in Yellowstone from 1919 to 1936.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:59 am
by Pat Holscher
1939 German BMW motocycle with sidecar, at Jax's in Ft. Collins:
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:10 am
by Gordon_M
That's nice Pat, but ....
I seem to remember Russia was making those BMW combinations until the 1970s. I think there are a lot more Russian copies than originals
Gordon
sunny Aberdeen
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:15 am
by Pat Holscher
Gordon_M wrote:That's nice Pat, but ....
I seem to remember Russia was making those BMW combinations until the 1970s. I think there are a lot more Russian copies than originals
Gordon
sunny Aberdeen
I wondered about that, particularly as I saw a Cyrillic marked part on the engine, but then I also saw something on the engine marked BMW also. I wonder if it's really a 1939 German model, or a mix master. Unfortunately, I know so little about these that I really couldn't tell.
It has many fewer markings than most German military stuff I ran across.
The other day here in town I saw one of these, motorcycle plus sidecar, I'm sure was surplus from the Red Army. It was even accordingly marked. It was belching smoke like a destroyer laying down a smoke screen, but at least it was running, unlike this one (for which they want $9,000).
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:22 am
by Pat Holscher
Gordon, what made these so popular with the Germans? They seem to have really taken to motorcycles in a major way, more than any other army.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:35 am
by Gordon_M
Like most countries the Germans started WW2 with horses and motorcycles, and they did make exceptional quality motorcycles. I believe the Chinese ( Chang Jiang ) made these BMW copies too.
They were ( are ) just very good bikes, as popular today as in the 1930s. The US could supply every US / allied grunt with a jeep by 1942 so the demand just fell back for bikes, but the Germans couldn't.
No personal experience, but everyone I know speaks highly of the originals, and apparently even the copies can be fettled to be extremely respectable.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:45 am
by Pat Holscher
I noticed it had a drive line, rather than a chain. That really surprised me as I wasn't aware that any motorcycle that old had been designed that way.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:57 am
by Gordon_M
http://www.milweb.net/webverts/67727/
Ural from Russia, about $3750 or thereabouts which is the right price.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:39 am
by Pat Holscher
Does the Soviet motorcycle have parts commonality with the BMW? And, I guess for that matter, did BMW keep making this particular motorcycle post war?
For that matter, I wonder to what extent post 1940 Soviet army vehicles had parts commonality with the vehicles they were based on?
Why did the Soviets make military motorcycles? I'd think that the Red Army would have, at some point, not needed them, but I probably just don't understand their use.
Re: A look at one of the early repalcements for the horse
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:02 am
by Gordon_M
The Ural ( and I think the Chang Jiang) are direct copies of captured german BMWs. I would imagine most parts would interchange at the assembly level, though I expect the original German ones would be better made and better finished.
Both those countries had a great need for this sort of transport, if fact they probably still do. The Russian one was made for army use and exports were just a bonus, and I think the Chinese copy had the same sort of background.
British BSA motorcycles of the same era are still being produced in India, there is even one with a diesel engine.
