Forums at The Military Horse

Originally posted by roy elderkin
That is totaly incorect all soldiers irespective of rank wore a stable where the buckle was at the front, no Grey's stable belts were issued in that format. The only other stable belts that were worm prior to 1976, were staff corp belts which were dark blue with a red stripe and done up at the side UK army style.

Grey's had their own flag, again maroon over grey [or to give its correct colour plumbago] with the Regt vrest in the centre, Sqn were colour coded but never carried standards, now before you ask I cannot remeber the colours, the brain does not function that well any more.

Roy

Originally posted by roy elderkin
danjou

I am afraid all of this did happen, he was not as popular as people made out.His use of horses was not successful, and he would not allow Grey's to assist him, or supply him with trained soldiers for the dogs he tried to use, it did not last long and he finaly droped the idea.

Roy

Originally posted by roy elderkin
Pat

That would be a fair view of it, but to put it into a bslanced prospective they were highly successful in other ways. And without wishing to get involved in the politics of things ie personalitys and Regts etc will leave it at that. And stay with the subject Grey's.

Roy

Originally posted by roy elderkin
Hi Pat

Sorry I have not replied sooner I have been to see my father and mother. Grey's was born out of UDI [Unilateral Decleration of Independance] and sanctions, and a bad period in the country's history in that the year was the worst in heavy rains, and made border patroling almost impossible for vehicles. It was from this that resuply was dificult, Tony Stevens who thought up the idea was then patroling the border, and thought that horses would have a better chance of trying to do what he was doing. He approached Army and it was not well recieved, indeed it was thought of as an anachronism, in the modern era.

Many senior officer were trained under the old Federal Govt system and some were products of the Sandhurst system. Many of whom had served in Malaya, and elsware. But some were also decendants of the the Boer Republic, and had trecked to Rhodesia from before the war and after, therefore they had an afinity with the concept of using horses. It was once remarked that if you have no control over your borders, then you have no control at all, and the border was an open sore and had to be patroled, the Police would not do it. The original concept was an animal transport unit, but this was overruled and a more agressive move was made to patrol the border on horse back this had two purposes first being that it freed up conventional forces who could operate internaly and secondly the ground coverage along the border was greater with less manpower to acheive it, and with the extensive rains horses could work along the border where vehicles could not go.

There were no shortages of manpower as far the horse side was concerned, many farmers had their own horses, and a number of them had come out to the country between wars, and after WWII some of whom had been ex Indian Army Cavalry, and others who had been in Palastine and had a good background in the use of horses. And of course there was the Afrikaaner community who were Boer decendants. There was of course a degree of lobying amongs this group, to get it off the ground, it also enabled them to get their offspring into a horse uit, to carry on the family traditions so to speak. So there was a degree of politicking going on.

But it payed of and Grey's was born, however there were not enough skilled instructors to undertake the training of mounted infantry warfare, there were plenty of horsey people who could teach but not in the military way. And I suppose that I was in the right place at the right time, and could teach mounted infantry soldiers with my background. And I suppose one could say the rest is history. Any one can teach people to ride, but very few can teach Mounted Infantry Warfare, not only do you have to be a horseman but you also have to be a soldier with all the vagary that go with it, logistics, animal managemant, map time appreciation, infantry tactics etc.

I hope this answers some of your question if not, I will try again but please ask the questions and I will try to answer them.

Roy

Originally posted by roy elderkin
Pat

Thank you for posting the photos, it has been a long time since I have seen them again.

I will try and put some perspective on them, firstly in an historical context which I think I have made ref to the police on the forum elswhere. The BSAPolice historicaly were what amounted to as the first line of defence, and the army were subserviant to it,war was never declared in Rhodesia therefore the army was in support to the civil powers.

All policeman going through the police training depot, were taught to ride it was only in the latter stages of the conflict in Rhodesia, that the standard of instruction was not as good as it used to be. Most of its senior instructors, that is the good ones had either retired or left, it is ironic that one the best instructor S Sgt "Smudge" Smith who incidentaly was my instructor in the police depot, joined Grey's.

The police mounted section although used for training recruits, was also largley ceramonial and the horses were kept in depot for that purpose, therefore they did not have the expertise to teach mounted infantry warfare, I am afraid that the photos reflect this, the standard of equitation is not good. This is a good example and indicator, that the police had to hastely create a operational mounted unit, well after Grey's became operational, because the police had come under some flak to get out there with their horses. They operated bye and large in the Matabele area, where Grey's were operating, but I may add they did not achieve the same successes that we had. Had they started a lot earlier, with trained instructors they would I think have achieved better results.

The saddles they are using are a South African variant of the SU, of which two types were made one has a fixed tree ie the boates with the numnah pads on, are fixed the same as the British Army's SU's, the other has swivel boats in that the numnah pads are hinged so that they fit better between the back bone [Supposedly !!!!] they do not work, the numnah pads have a tendency to role off the boats and cause back problems.

They were not as flexible as the Mac and heavier, but the police had always adopted the SU and did not change it. The photo also indicates that the bedding role is carried on the front arch, this again is a carry over from the British Army manual of equitation which the police training is based on. Which brought about some conclusions that the method of training was inflexable, a thing that we avoided at all costs, the police would never seek advice from us, but do it their way.

The rifles they are carrying are FNs, the police were well supplied with these, neither are they carrying side arms, there is also a marked absence of saddle bags, which leaves me to believe that they are engaged in short duration patrols. There are other areas of their equiment that differ from us, but to raise them here would be nit picking. But overall the standard of of equitation is poor and I make no apology for that comment.

If you have any other questions I will try to answer them, I have some knowledge of them but not sufficient to go into any great detail about them.

Roy