I am just wondering if anyone might be able to identify these pommel pockets or have any thoughts or observations about them, firstly some background on them.
I bought them fairly inexpensively around twenty years ago just as "saddlebags", at the time I was interested in them due to their similarity to officers M1912 pommel pockets and to temporarily fill a gap, whilst they are not identical they do fit an officers M1912 saddle, I assumed they might be something somebody made to look like M1912 pommel pockets, but having gone to this much trouble (they include all the internal pockets) one would think they would have gotten the centre section correct, plus they do have some age.
They are very well made but not arsenal quality, they have escutcheons, coat strap and buckles from McClellan saddle bags and Interestingly they are stuffed with newspaper from 1938.
I have had them stored away more or less since I acquired them and am ashamed to say they have developed some verdigris from being stored which I will remove. I was reminded of them after reading Dick A's post about the Whiting modifications of the McClellan saddle, whilst I am not saying these are part of the modifications they do appear similar but there is no sign of how those were attached and I cannot workout how these would have attached to a McClellan saddle so I am not sure they are related.
My reason for asking is that after being reminded about these it seems a shame to store them away for another twenty years, perhaps if they can be identified then the correct home can be found for them.
Thanks
Kurt
M1912 officers Pommel pockets bottom.
Help Identify US Pommel Pockets
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You may well have hit it on the button - will need to do some digging to see if I can find any decent pics of that mod - if not Whiting's, then some other unit level inventery, as a lot of folks were trying to find better options. Whiting just managed to get published. Save those newspaper stuffings!
Best pic for the moment looks very close -
Best pic for the moment looks very close -
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Thanks Todd, I will be sure to keep all the newspaper. The photo is very tantalizing if only it was not a packed saddle, the pommel pocket itself appears quite similar from what we can see including having the securing strap sewn to the outside of the flap, whilst not exclusive (enlisted M1912 pockets are the same) but more often than not they are sewn on the inside of other pockets, a small thing I know but worth noting.
Kurt.
Kurt.
Here is the link for those who've not seen the old Cavalry Journal article that Whiting wrote about his modification -
https://www.militaryhorse.org/the-mccle ... fications/
The pertinent quotes in that article :
https://www.militaryhorse.org/the-mccle ... fications/
The pertinent quotes in that article :
Five of these straps are used on the pommel. One through the center slot on top secures the center of the pommel wallets, the feed bag and the raincoat keeping them clear of the withers; two, one on each side, pass through staples fixed to the front of the tree and slots in the top piece of leather joining the wallets, securing them to the tree; and two more, one on each side, pass through leather staples on the under sides of the wallets and the front part of the flaps, around the wallets, making them still more secure. The upper pair of these straps pass around and secure the feed bag and raincot[sic].
One of four, perhaps?Four of these saddles were ridden by student officers on the recent 100-mile forced march. All four preferred them to the regulation pack. Upon their recommendation, the rifle was raised higher on the saddle and the steel spring added to the leather brace. Two of the saddles will shortly be turned over to the Second Cavalry and two to the Thirteenth Cavalry for a test covering several months, after which they will be submitted to the Cavalry Board.
The intelligent testing and criticism by Capt. Harrison and the skilled work of Sergt. Phillips of the Cavalry School Detachment made the development of this modified saddle and pack a fact instead of a theory. The only way of finding out about equipment is by trying it.
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Todd thank you for the work you have put in, it does sound very promising reading that description.
Any ideas on where might be a good home for these being such an obscure item, I imagine there is no one collecting this kit being so few were made, it would be a shame just to store them away, well here anyway.
Thanks again
Kurt.
Any ideas on where might be a good home for these being such an obscure item, I imagine there is no one collecting this kit being so few were made, it would be a shame just to store them away, well here anyway.
Thanks again
Kurt.
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Hi sandy
Sorry for not responding to your reply sooner, yes it looks to be a faux pigskin leather, the leather is also thinner than that found on arsenal produced items.
Kurt.
Sorry for not responding to your reply sooner, yes it looks to be a faux pigskin leather, the leather is also thinner than that found on arsenal produced items.
Kurt.
It may be a long shot but my first thought after looking at your pommel bags was that they looked very similar the pommel bags for the M1916 experimental saddle. The placement of the ovals for attaching to the foot staples was what got my attention. I checked out the photo I have of the M1916 saddle at the Quartermaster Museum and the drawings in Randy Steffen's book, THE HORSE SOLDIER, 1776-1943, Vol III, page 264, fig. 385A. It appears to me that the placement of the ovals on your bags could match up with the fixtures on the saddle. The only way to be sure would be to measure the distance between ovals and compare to the fixtures on the saddle or try them on the saddle if you can find one.
Good luck
Good luck