Correct late period McClellan field pack

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Joseph Sullivan
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Friends:

I am close to having everything necessary --except the uniform items -- to rig my war-time '04 for post-war border service in the field. I have the modified saddle bags, for instance, and most of the contents. I have a lariat and lariat loop, etc etc. However, I cannot seem to find a picture or diagram of the correct way to attach everything to the saddle. Looking around, I find guys doing all sorts of things, and the variation suggests that at least some of them don't know much either.

Can anybody point me in the right direction?
TL Foster
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"Manual for Noncommissioned Officers and Privates of Cavalry of the Army of the United States. 1917. to Be Also Used by Engineer Companies (Mounted) for Cavalry Instruction and Training" available on amazon. I'd be cautious about the paper back as my copy was not complete. I can't find my copy, but IIRC it has what you need. I am not aware of any later printing, but... Then there is Boniface from 1903, and Steffen"s The horse soldier Vol III and lV. Then there is the photo evidence that show's what was actually done. Not a rant, but is there a compendium of photos? If they were water marked, could such a thing be done.
Cheers to all.
Tom
Couvi
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Manual for noncommissioned officers and privates of cavalry of the Army of the United States. 1917. To be also used by engineer companies (mounted) for cavalry instruction and training.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/ls?fie ... hls;lmt=ft
Philip S
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The attached pages show a proper saddle pack prior to WWII.
"Tactics and Techniques of Cavalry, Basic" 2nd edition , produced for the Cavalry Journal by The National Service Publishing Company, Wash, DC 1931
This non governmental publication is an excellent resource.
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TL Foster
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Excellent find! The similarities to this manual and the suggestions by Boniface to me are striking, especially the changes to carrying the rifle and saber. I just ordered a copy of the manual, so I can make comparisons between Boniface, the 1917 manual, and the 1931 manual.
Now. Can someone explain the me why the rain coat or over coat are packed inside out?
Cheers
Tom
Joseph Sullivan
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Yes, indeed an excellent find. Thanks, Couvi.

For some reason I do not recall getting any notices on this thread, and so was surprised when I took a look, to see this helpful information.
Couvi
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:thumbup:
Joseph Sullivan
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One thing that is not entirely clear in the texts is just what they did with the lariat. I have one, and also a lariat loop. The lariat has its own perfectly effective clip. Seems from the texts you provided, Couvi, that the policy up until after the Great War was to hank the lariat and using two cantle loops, carry it cross-wise over the cantle bundle. I am not quite sure how this was done.

Then it seems that after the war at some point they shifted to coiling the lariat and using the lariat loop to affix it to the cantle rings. Seems to still call for the use of two cantle rings, which puzzles me because looking at my lariat loop, i don't see how that would work well.

Anybody have a better grasp on this?
TL Foster
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In the 1931 manual page 310, the lariat is attached to the ring of the halter with the remainder secured around the horses neck with a knot similar to a "hang man's knot", plate 79. In the next paragraph, the lariat is described as attached to a cantle ring, then strapped to the top of the cantle roll. It does seem to suggest that there are two lariats issued to each trooper. ??? Plated 77-79 show both.
The 1917 manual page 34, with photo on the facing page, shows the lariat attached to the ring of the halter with the remainder secured around the horses neck. Again there is a description of the lariat attached to a cantle ring, but this time it is secured by the outside pocket flap. Clear as mud.
Page 31 give an inventory for the horse that includes only one lariat. When is it packed? When is it on the halter? May wiser heads prevail.
Cheers
Tom
Joseph Sullivan
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I suspect it is a terminological error in the manual that the "lariat" goes around the horse's neck. I have owned two or three halters of the period, and all have stout lead lines. In photos, those seem to be what runs from halter and around neck. The lariat is quite another matter -- much longer, and thinner (about the width of an old-fashioned fat cotton clothes line). It seems to be hanked and secured by both cantle rigs i the 1917 instructions, but coiled and secured somehow to the cantle rings by means of the lariat loop or strap. I have one of those , too, and it is not very long (have to dig it out). In the case of what appears to be the later, coiled approach, the picket pin is sort of stuck into the saddle bag or under the flap, or so it appears. In the earlier approach, perhaps the picket pin is inside the hank? Not clear at all.
Joseph Sullivan
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I take that back. I went back and read the manual rather than study the photo, and it seems clear enough. the lariat strap is attached tot he off cantle ring and runs through the near ring to hold even 10-inch coils of lariat then battened down by the near saddle bag straps with picket pin stuck in the bag one of two ways.

the photo seems to show NONE of this.
TL Foster
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Even better is that the 1931 manual uses only line drawings, so.... :think: When I get some time, I'll look at picket lines. That sounds like what you described. I also have the blue prints for cavalry equipment on DVD. :?: I'll look. Unless some one else has them and.... Could happen. :lol:
Cheers Tom
Todd
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And just to interject distraction, you may just have to pick a source and go with it. Many organizations did their own thing or had variations as far down as the company level. Trying to get a good 'balanced load' with the McClellan appears to have been the equivalent of a '9mm-vs-45' argument.
Joseph Sullivan
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Yes, Todd, that is true. However, because I plan eventually to donate this to the Haley Library, I'd like it to be as well-documented as possible.

I have one other issue-- the picket pin. I have one of those pins that is close to specs but not quite there. Dorsey and McPheeters say they are not issue pins. They may be right, BUT, I have seen them pop up in various military displays and catalogs, so I wonder if they are really a little-known variant.
Couvi
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Many organizations did their own thing or had variations as far down as the company level.
I argue constantly with some people, usually collectors who have never been in the military, that we did things in Vietnam that were not especially ‘by the book.’ You worked with what was available and what the new commander wanted.
Fossilhorse
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A agree with Couvi regarding the many "non-regulation" means by which things were done in the field, in various areas, by various units or individuals.

I recall seeing a period photo ( I wish I could remember where now) in which the picket rope was coiled into a loose figure 8, and lashed down to the near side saddle bag by the closure straps.
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