British cavalry weapons in WWI

[Dave Carter]

In his book "Mud, Blood and Poppycock", Gordon Corrigan states that swords were withdrawn from the British cavalry on the Western Front in 1915 and all regiments issued with lances, Canadian regiments retaining their swords. I know I have read about the withdrawal of swords elsewhere, with one reference that I can't recall stating that they were re-issued in 1918. I have plenty of photo's of what I believe are British, rather than Canadian, cavalrymen (one certainly being of the Scots Greys) wearing steel helmets (i.e. post 1915) and carrying swords on their saddles. Can anyone throw any light onto the actual state of play re. swords and lances being carried post 1915?

[lazyschnauzer]

Don't know the answer to your question, but here are some examples of the 1868 lance and a schematic.
All the best,
Dan

1868 cavalry lance scale.jpg (185.53 KiB) Viewed 4408 times

1868 cavalry lance.jpg (49.35 KiB) Viewed 4408 times

1868-pattern 1.jpg (44.59 KiB) Viewed 4408 times

Version C is lance pennon ca. 1914.gif (5.08 KiB) Viewed 4408 times

Cavalry lance tip 12.5 inches in length.jpg (43.6 KiB) Viewed 4408 times

1868-pattern 2.jpg (35.85 KiB) Viewed 4408 times

lance2.jpg (23.84 KiB) Viewed 4408 times

Entire 1868 lance.jpg (28.65 KiB) Viewed 4408 times

[Pat Holscher]

Nice photos!

[Dave Carter]

Thanks Dan. That actually prompted me to start a new topic of where I can find a source of new bamboo shafts for some old lances I have.

[Dave Carter]

A couple of queries Dan: You give the size of the lance tip as 12.5", but the one in the top photo appears shorter. Is this just the distance from the ruler, or does it indicate a variation in sizes or types? Also, out of interest, what are types A & B on the pennon picture? Finally, for the benefit of someone who has never used a lance (but would love to have a go!), what's the regulation way of attaching the pennon?

Thanks,

Dave.

[lazyschnauzer]

I don't want to mislead you into thinking I'm an cavalry officer or even a horseman - definitely not. I'm retired from both USAF and Union Pacific Railroad. I think I could identify the business end of a horse and probably stay in a saddle across a paddock, but that's about it.

All my info came from internet and book searches. I'm interested in the military history of the period 1870 until 1935. I'm also a model-maker and I use the info to ensure historical accuracy and scale sizes for my models.

The photos I posted related to the 1868 lance except one. The photo indicating the 12.5 inch lance tip or blade was mislabeled or misfiled. The British army revised the lance in 1894 so probably that photo refers to the 1894.

I believe most lance pennons (or pennants) were tied on to the shafts. Most lance shafts had metal rings or something similar to which one attached the pennant. The German lance used a button and button hole method with thin wire reinforcements in some cases and leather strips in others. The French apparently attached their pennants using string or canvas strip. (See photos). French pennants are red and yellow. The photos are all different sizes, but if you click on each photo, you should get a page size image.

Below is a table I put together of lance lengths, model years, & shaft materials for various combatant nations in WW1.

Nation lance shaft materials model Total lengths
French wood 1890 2900mm
metal 1913 2970mm
British bamboo 1863 ?
bamboo 1894 2743mm
German metal 1893 3175mm
Russian metal pre-war 2750mm
metal 1914 3250mm
Austrian* metal 1911(?) 2641mm
Turkish+ metal 1893 3175mm
Belgian wood 1888 2810mm
* No Hungarian (Honved) lancers
+ Turkish lance is same as or nearly the same as German M1893 metal lance.
Total lengths include blades and stirrup cup inserts.
All values approximate and based on web and text research.
Info collected prior to March 4, 2015.

There are actually three (A, B and C) pennants or pennons of different sizes and shapes. Not sure why. I don't know if the British army had a procurement specification for pennons but they had them for weapons, uniform items, equipment, etc. prior to 1914.

Bavarian lance blue and white pennant.jpg (238.91 KiB) Viewed 4399 times

Bavarian-lance-pennon.jpg (104.56 KiB) Viewed 4399 times

Lances-1.jpg (516.65 KiB) Viewed 4399 times

Lance-1.jpg (344.36 KiB) Viewed 4399 times

Pennant-1.jpg (116.32 KiB) Viewed 4399 times

Pennants-2.jpg (56.76 KiB) Viewed 4399 times

All the best,
Dan

[Dave Carter]

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.