Browband ornament / rosette ?

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Todd
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Can make definite identifications of both sets of bridle ornaments/rosettes? The elaborate one is part of a piair that are attached to their original browband. The rosettes themselves are made of a gilt-brass stamping (the part in the octagon), that is affixed to what was a yellow leather disk. In fact the bails that hold the rosettes to the browband are leather loops. The browband is made of a thickness of yellow leather over one of black, with a thin, wavy strip of black over upper and lower edges so that the yellow looks wavy. The eagle itself is elaborate – the shield is held in a claw, off to the side as you can see. The thing that arcs around the wing is actually a banner the middle of which is in the eagle’s beak. There are no words on the banner.

The intertwined USA rosettes are pretty much just what you see.
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Joseph Sullivan
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I am under the impression that the intertwined USA rosettes are artillery team items from the mid 19-th century, but not sure which is why I put them up. Pretty neat design. I think. I don't remember where the other ones came from years ago, but they look to me like an officer's rig, but that fancy octagonal eagle medallion looks official. I have always assumed it was a cavalry item because of the yellow .
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JIm Ottevaere confirmed in an email exchange that:
The intertwined USA is regulation Artillery, no question. Although these were unofficially used by some officers in place of more costly private purchase devices. Other branches, Signal Corps, Infantry, QM also used them. They were used from ACW into the early 20th Century.
As to the other, he's never seen any quite like them,, but he noted that he has a box full of non-regulation rosettes. Here is his take:
Best guess on the other is State Troops, Militia, National Guard, etc. Usually unit purchased, but also supplied by State. Tough to place or date exactly. Might find them in mid-century military supplier catalog. Based on the workmanship style of the little bit of leather visible, I might stick my neck out and say mid-late 19th Century. As late as SAW.
He and I both noted that they are hand-sewn, which further supports the dating, and of course , the style of the eagle is NOT a later thing.

In that connection, with my usual compulsiveness which pat has doubtless noted on client projects we have worked on together, I finally tried a search that yielded something similar:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/territorial-go ... ion-120115

Note that this is a territorial gold coin from 1851. Apparently somebody liked the design and modified it to a brass stamping with rays instead of words. Obviously the stamping is not just a one-off; too much work for that. So, sooner or later we'll probably find out more.
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Todd
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These looked very familiar, so I went to rummage in my junk box and found these. Frank Burgess sold these reproductions back in the 80s - I got this pair in 1985. He listed them as 1850s militia replicas.
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Awfully close except for the bail instead of being affixed to a leather disk. Burgess' s ID as copy of 1850s militia confirms Ott's thoughts on State troops, and my own on the date.
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Rick Throckmorton
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Todd,
I've seen similar bridle rosettes/brow bands before, and generally equate the octagonal design as reflective of the old short lived,octagonal dragoon ornaments. That the decorative yellow faced brow band is attached, leads me to believe it is off of a CW period private purchase officer's cavalry bridle. Such bridles could be purchased with matching chest pieces as well. I believe the style is loosely referred to as the "Federalist" style. As they are not regulation, but private purchase, I have never collected them, although I do find them visually pleasing.
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