Cavalry uniforms

Brian P.
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Kurt, I don't know the answer, either. I would speculate that it may be easier to tailor a pair of breeches to fit a leg using a button placket vs laces. I do know that the WWI British pattern breeches (like the tartan breeches that you show) ALL used a combo of laces and the button flap, below. As I recall, the development of that custom came from them adding the lighter, thinner material on the bottom to better fit in the boots.


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Kurt Hughes
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Thank you Rick, I hoped you would enjoy seeing it, I have had the pleasure of seeing your fine collection first hand on a couple of occasions, guess this is my way repaying the favour.
The bandoleer bayonet scabbard is leather lined as you can imagine there was some concern when first placing a bayonet in it. I know we have both seen those frustrating original photos where just not enough of the bandoleer with bayonet scabbard could be seen.

Brian, thanks for the additonal info.

Kurt.
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Pat Holscher
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Jim Bewley wrote:Kurt, I was asking about the use of "both". It seems that some officer's breeches did have laces AND a button flap below them. I was curious as to why. :thumbup:

Jim
Wow. Those are some seriously tartan breeches. What's the story?
Pat

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Pat Holscher
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Kurt Hughes wrote:Thanks for all the kind comments, I like to see these uniforms together so I hoped others would the same, I do not have the space to have them all on display all the time, hence it is equally a treat for me.

Pat, with regards to the private purchase sweater it came out of an officers foot locker, he had sadly died I think of the Spanish Flu, a shame but his footlocker contents were sold individually, from memory everything was in great condition with little sign of any of the items being worn. The sweater is very similar to some examples being offered in military outfitter catalogues from the period. The campaign hat is an issue example, in fact it is just in great never worn condition, the leather of the sweatband looks new with no marks, I have had that hat for many year and interestingly it was purchased over here. I recall purchasing it because when the seller told me the price I said thanks and walked away, my friend with me at the time could not believe I had not bought it, turns out I misheard the vendor, I went straight back and paid my £10, ($15) :D

Yes examples of the bandoleer are few and far between, I have seen another in a book but I think it had the bayonet scabbard removed, you may recall I think we discussed the carrying of a bayonet many years ago on the forum, I think it was in a photo and although the grip of the bayonet could be seen over the shoulder of the trooper we were unable to see the whole scabbard, they sometimes show up in early photos of the m1912 equipment when it was being trialled, but those photos are almost as scarce.

Jim, the honest answer to your question is I do not know, I know that some circa 1899 officers trousers had buttons, but I have seen both laces and buttons during the pre WW1 years, but around WW1 they seem to be more prominent, I think post WW1 both enlisted and officers had buttons but that is an era I am unfamiliar with. I guess it could simply be down to preference and or the cut/style, similarly officers uniforms being sometimes of a finer cloth. Brian might be able to add more on the subject?

Kurt.
This is an amazing set of uniforms, and while it's all stunning, I just cant' get over the appearance of the hat. Best looking original I think I've ever seen.
Pat

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Jim Bewley
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Pat Holscher wrote:
Jim Bewley wrote:Kurt, I was asking about the use of "both". It seems that some officer's breeches did have laces AND a button flap below them. I was curious as to why. :thumbup:

Jim
Wow. Those are some seriously tartan breeches. What's the story?
Those came from WPG. My wife gave them to me and I really like them. Stated to be copies of the officer's breeches of the 42nd Royal Highlanders, worn through WWII.

I do have several pair of original U.S. Army cotton breeches with laces and buttons as well.

Jim
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Kurt Hughes
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Pat Holscher wrote: This is an amazing set of uniforms, and while it's all stunning, I just cant' get over the appearance of the hat. Best looking original I think I've ever seen.
Here is a pic of the inside, as you can see it has seen little use.
7.jpg
7.jpg (107.61 KiB) Viewed 4359 times
Kurt
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Pat Holscher
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Kurt Hughes wrote:
Pat Holscher wrote: This is an amazing set of uniforms, and while it's all stunning, I just cant' get over the appearance of the hat. Best looking original I think I've ever seen.
Here is a pic of the inside, as you can see it has seen little use.
7.jpg
Kurt
Thanks! you anticipated my question as I was going to ask you to take a closeup of the hat. Very nice indeed.
Pat

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Brian P.
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Jim Bewley wrote:
Pat Holscher wrote:
Jim Bewley wrote:Kurt, I was asking about the use of "both". It seems that some officer's breeches did have laces AND a button flap below them. I was curious as to why. :thumbup:

Jim
Wow. Those are some seriously tartan breeches. What's the story?
Those came from WPG. My wife gave them to me and I really like them. Stated to be copies of the officer's breeches of the 42nd Royal Highlanders, worn through WWII.

I do have several pair of original U.S. Army cotton breeches with laces and buttons as well.

Jim
From the late 19th century through at least WWI, officers in the Highland regiments (the kilted regiments) were authorized to wear breeches in the regimental tartan when mounted. - because wearing a kilt on horseback would just be too scary!

Years ago, I remember seeing an original pair of these in Gordon tartan in a local militaria shop. (They fit me , too!) I wish that I had picked them up - another missed opportunity.
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Brian P. wrote:From the late 19th century through at least WWI, officers in the Highland regiments (the kilted regiments) were authorized to wear breeches in the regimental tartan when mounted. - because wearing a kilt on horseback would just be too scary!

Years ago, I remember seeing an original pair of these in Gordon tartan in a local militaria shop. (They fit me , too!) I wish that I had picked them up - another missed opportunity.
[/quote][/quote]

At the barn, where we board our riding horses, I am one of only two men. I get some odd looks where I wear them, but tell everyone that you would have laughed at a Royal Highlander only once. :lol:

Jim
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Kurt Hughes wrote:Something for me that is iconic with troops serving on the border, the 1911 Sweater, displayed with 1911 campaign hat and Wilson goggles. Also shown Models 1912 pistol holster, bandoleer and .30 cartridge belt.
4a.jpg
I have to say that I'm amazed by the quality of the sweater. How it avoided an assault by an Army of moths for all these years before you acquired it I can't begin to imagine.

How do you preserve an item like this? I know it needs to be very clean (moths really like dirty stuff, fowl critters that they are). But what else do you do.

Very interesting design. This is such a good example that it really lets us look at it. Indeed, the entire series of photos shows how practical U.S. Army uniforms were in this period, a a feature of US field uniforms as a rule.
Pat

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Kurt Hughes
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Hi Pat

Preservation is always a concern with all the items, but some are more of a concern than others, it is a difficult balance to want to display everything but it might do it more harm, I rotate items from my collection, at least that way I get to enjoy them rather than having them always stored away. As you say the sweater has been around for this long hence I feel responsible to do my best to keep it safe, the sweater retains the original tag so that is an added bonus as many other are faded or missing. The 1911 sweater is sometimes on display in a glass cabinet on a mannequin but with no natural light in the room, when it is not on display it is wrapped in acid free tissue paper (also placed between the folds) and stored in a box.
The private purchase sweater has been kept with moth balls for many years before I acquired it, the smell is very strong from it, my wife knows even a few rooms away if it has been out, the smell is that strong, for that reason I keep it in an air tight bag/cover with the air sucked out, I am not sure if that is the best way but if one wants a happy home life it is necessary :D

I have seen what day light can do to old uniforms, the fading is often not noticeable until the uniform is removed from a mannequin and the back compared with the front for example.

In the 1990's during my army service a woollen sweater was still part of the uniform, was there a similar item still in service with the US army?

Kurt.
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Note too that the light produced by florescent bulbs is especially hard on colored textiles.
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selewis wrote:Note too that the light produced by florescent bulbs is especially hard on colored textiles.
Florescent light is worse than sunlight. :thumbdown:
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I had heard or read that florescent light was bad but had not realised it was worse than sunlight, obviously very interesting to know, fortunately I do keep all light down to a minimum, the room is mostly unlit, and when it is the light is still quite dim.
Any idea with regards to halogen or incandescent lighting?
I guess in a way it is a positive that I do not have the space to display all my uniforms (even though I would like to), at least that way most are always stored away.
Thanks Sandy and Couvi for the info
Kurt.
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Kurt Hughes wrote:
In the 1990's during my army service a woollen sweater was still part of the uniform, was there a similar item still in service with the US army?

Kurt.
I don't know about currently, as so many new synthetics have come in, but in the 1980s we still had a version of the WWII Army sweater. I really liked them and had one for years and years. Some time during the 80s a black British Army style sweater came in for semi dress use, but I also don't know if it's still around. It seems to me (but I may be in error) that the Marines adopted the green British Army style in the same period, and I am pretty sure that the Air Force adopted a blue one for semi dress use.

I'd also be curious if there's still a wool sweater that's being issued. I suspect there isn't for field use, due to the synthetics. They're in very widespread use now and the synthetic fleece in combination with shells has replaced the field jacket and liner, and my guess is that it's also replaced the wool sweater, in combination with the battle dress uniform and a synthetic underlayer.

Regarding wool, in the 1980s Korean War vintage heavy wool trousers and shirts were still in use as cold weather gear. If you wore them, you looked very Korean War indeed.
Pat

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Regarding current sweaters, I asked somebody in the know, and they inform me that the US armed forces no longer issue a sweater for field use. Pullover sweaters remain, however, for semi dress use with the Army blue uniform and the Marine Corps green uniform.
Pat

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Kurt,
Thank you so much for sharing another part of your amazing collection.
Especially nice to see that Bandoleer and the '09 holster
Best, George. :clap:
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Thanks George, it has been a pleasure sharing them, I know how much I enjoy seeing other collections so thought it would be nice to show them, but also as a somewhat general educational display of cavalry uniforms from the period, of course not a complete one. Equally I enjoyed seeing them again, most had been packed away for quite some time whilst I was between moving home, un-packing all the items is like seeing them for the first time again.
Kurt.
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On sweaters, apparently the Australians just abandoned the wooly pulley for field use (and I mean just did it). Sam no doubt knows more about that than I.
Pat

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