THE BRITISH UP 1912 SADDLE

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John M
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LoC 16589 of 27th April 1910 confirms the introduction of the Saddle, steel arch, pattern 1912.

"..Patterns of the above mentioned articles have been sealed to govern future manufacture.
The saddle in principle differs from other riding saddles in the Service in that the front and hind arches are jointed to the side bars...the former by clips (..my note..surely these are sockets?)..and the latter by sockets...thus allowing of an automatic range of fitting covering that obtainable by the various sizes that now exist.
The hind arch is supported at the lower angle by struts, which act as baggage staples and do not intefere with automatic movement. The sockets are provided with washers to minimize wear on the edges. The washers can be replaced when required.
Steel studs are permanently fitted to the side bars to allow of the flaps to be buttoned on instead of being fixed by screws. It is important when fitting new side bars that the original position of the studs should be followed, as otherwise movement of the bars is interfered with.
The seat is stiched round the hind arch instead of being laced, thus allowing of rather more seat room.
The cross webbing supporting the seatis sewn to the flaps on the near side, and laced on the off side, instead of being nailed to the side bars. The two upper lengths of webbing running lengthways are attached to the front and rear arches by stitching - the two under lengths are laced to the front pockets of seat and stiched to the rear pockets.
The flaps allow of being set more forward than with previous patterns of universal saddles.
The upper surfaces of the side bar is specially shaped; the under surface is as with earlier patterns..".

There are no drawings with the LoC....and nowhere have I found an official drawing.
My understanding is that some British made examples of this pattern do exist but that it never became general issue in the British Army. This probably being due to there being sufficient UP 1902 saddles available and in service. Cost and more complicated field maintenance and repair also being a consideration.

But the pattern was widely used in Canada and Australia. I understand, from an Australian knowledgable in these matters, that the approximate ratio of WWI Australian saddles was approximately..1/3 English made, 1/3 Canadian made and the rest Australian made. Most Australian UP saddles were pattern 1912. Whether the English made ones were 1902 or 1912 patterns I am unsure.

The Handbook Military Artificers of 1910 describes the saddle...
"...A saddle has been approved to supercede Pattern 1902, the steel arch Universal and Drivers saddles. It is made to suit horses and cobs and will give one size for all Service purposes other than officers.
The seat is a little longer, and the hind arch lower, than pattern 1902, otherwise the saddle has the same outward appearance; the Front Arch is held by clips and the Hind Arch by sockets. Struts are added to support the arch, strengthen the lower angles forming the feet and to prevent the arch working backwards out of the sockets.
The seat is supported by double webbing from front to rear arch, to stiffen it particularly in wet weather when the leather is very liable to stretch and and become unshapely. The flaps are buttoned on to steel studs in side bars instead of being screwed to the bars.
It is worn with numnha and blanket.
The side bars, arches, sockets and steel studs are special to this saddle..".


John D Morgan
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John M
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continued....

My next step will be to illustrate the three UP 1912's in my possession.
John D Morgan
Richard Houf
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Sirs, Does anyone know of a source for reproduction M1912 UP saddles complete with all tack ,as i live in the USA (Mid Missouri) , I would like a USA maker if possible .
Also how much trouble would it be to covert a M1912 UP to a Russian WWI & WWII Cavalry saddle ,also how much difference is there between the M1912UP and Russian cavalry saddle ?.
thanks,
Richard Houf
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John M
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Richard,
I for one, don't know the details of a WWI / WW2 Russian cavalry saddle....so can't be of much help.
I expect you mean the US M1912 saddle...and not the British UP 1912..?
John.M.
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Richard Houf
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Sir,
I was asking about the Btitish UP M1912
thanks,
Richard
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Pat Holscher
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Richard Houf wrote:Sirs, Does anyone know of a source for reproduction M1912 UP saddles complete with all tack ,as i live in the USA (Mid Missouri) , I would like a USA maker if possible .
Also how much trouble would it be to covert a M1912 UP to a Russian WWI & WWII Cavalry saddle ,also how much difference is there between the M1912UP and Russian cavalry saddle ?.
thanks,
Richard Houf
I don't believe there to be any close resemblance in real terms between the Russian saddle and the UP. There's at least one old thread with Russian tack, and I don't recall a close resemblance. Having said that, I'm not an expert on the Russian tack by any means. You may want to bump up one of those old threads and see if one of the Russian participants can add additional detail.

FWIW, a few UPs made it to Russia during the Russian Civil War, and we have at least one old thread on that topic.
Pat

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hbtoday98
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I have just bought a 1912 when I saddle soap under the dust the 1912's might be 1909's
John up try looking up a british patent 25340 of 1909 as this saddle is stamped on the wood rear left.

It is stamped NZ^D and that dates the saddle to post 1926 it is stamped on the flaps and seat of the leather.

A broad arrow on the cantle with a 6 under it this is British inspection.

The 1909 date and patent no. should lead to a drawing .I will take it to work to post photos
hbtoday98
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photos of 1912
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hbtoday98
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Inspection mark
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John M
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That's a nice example of the UP1912. And the stampings are interesting. John.T. posted pictures of his example of a UP1912 ...frame only..with the 1909 PATENT stamping identical to yours...some while back. In both cases the saddles were probably made later than this date.

Yours would seem to be a British made example ...the leatherwork being British ordnance stamped...presumably sold to the Australia government at some stage....?..
John D Morgan
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Dpuckey
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Link to the patent here, looked it a while back as I have one as well.

http://v3.espacenet.com/maximizedOrigin ... nPage&FT=E

Yours looks almost unused, they are good to ride on and work well. Think they just cost too much to make and with 1000s of 1902s on stock after WW1 they faded out of use.
David Puckey
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I have a 1912 stamped with the Patent No as in the NZ example but also "Hart. Son Peard & Co Ltd 1915" on the n/s side bar and "Martins Birmm Limd 1915" and the WD arrow with the figure 1 on each of the girth attachments. There is also a letter "D" at the front of the o/s side bar but no markings on the seat or flaps.
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