Cavalry Bren Gun use in the 1930s

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Sam Cox
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Bren gun ues,3rd Carabiniers,late 1930s
Thanks to Trav in Manchester for the pic.

Sam Cox


Tom Ready
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Wondferful picture! I wonder if theres any related pics showing the saddlery that goes with the bandoleers.

NB the Gun is a Czech made ZGB. (from the holes on the flash hider)

Thanks!

Tom
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tom Ready</i>
<br />Wondferful picture! I wonder if theres any related pics showing the saddlery that goes with the bandoleers.

NB the Gun is a Czech made ZGB. (from the holes on the flash hider)

Thanks!

Tom
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tom, show this shows a Brno ZGB, not a Bren? Given as the latter was designed from the former, I'm sure I couldn't tell the difference.

Did the UK purchase some ZGBs early on?

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By the way, what's the trooper behind the machinegunner holding in his right hand?

Pat
Tom Ready
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Hi Pat
yes if I remember right (refs buried)we bought several hundred ZGBs, infact all the early drawings of Brens in the SAT manuals are of ZGBs and one was used in the photo/illustration of the Bren Packsaddlery. The easiest ways to tell, short of reading the legend on the side of the body is the vents on the flash hider and the rear monting point (on the butt) is a verical tube rather than the usual Mk I Bren job.

What the guns No. 2 has is a rattle used to simulate MG fire as the Bren/ZGB didn't have a blank firing barrel until much later on. It's the sort of thing football supporters had and was used by ARP wardens to warn of gas attacks.

The photo looks like one of a series...?

ATB

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PS
Didn't get much saddlery at the big Beltring show that finished on Sunday, just a couple of NOS PA Ammunition Girths for £5 each. The foul weather ment a lot of stalls had the piles of kit I've usually found stuff in covered up :-{(.

However the lack of punters did force the prices on some stalls down. I finally aquired a Indian Army Vickers-Berthier Mk III, the sort they used their distinctive pack saddlery with for £450. ;-{D)

ATB

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tom Ready</i>
<br />Hi Pat
yes if I remember right (refs buried)we bought several hundred ZGBs, infact all the early drawings of Brens in the SAT manuals are of ZGBs and one was used in the photo/illustration of the Bren Packsaddlery. The easiest ways to tell, short of reading the legend on the side of the body is the vents on the flash hider and the rear monting point (on the butt) is a verical tube rather than the usual Mk I Bren job.

What the guns No. 2 has is a rattle used to simulate MG fire as the Bren/ZGB didn't have a blank firing barrel until much later on. It's the sort of thing football supporters had and was used by ARP wardens to warn of gas attacks.

The photo looks like one of a series...?

ATB

Tom
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Tom. Where those ZGBs in .303?

I recognize the noise maker now that you have described it, although I never would have hat you not explained it. My kids had something like that, which they've no mercifully misplaced.

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tom Ready</i>
<br /> I finally aquired a Indian Army Vickers-Berthier Mk III, the sort they used their distinctive pack saddlery with for £450. ;-{D)


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


Wow! Can you post a photo of it?

Pat
Tom Ready
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Just failed miserably to put up the pics on this site so heres the link to the Bren forum.

http://weaponsonline.proboards76.com/in ... 705&page=1

Although its the most common type its been the hardest to get as the Indian army/militia/police still have them as reserve equipment.

I've also got the Model 1925-1926, Model 1928-1929 and Mk II (but with the wrong butt :-{() The accessories are proving harder to get than the guns themselves.

Yup the ZGBs where in .303 but perversely the magazines <i>just</i> don't fit the Bren.. A number of them with Irish markings turned up at Beltring.

ATB

Tom
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No idea if this is in the right thread or if it is as described by the vendor but it looks as if it might be part of MG pack equipment:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Leather-Sad ... dZViewItem

Dušan
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tom Ready</i>
<br />Just failed miserably to put up the pics on this site so heres the link to the Bren forum.

http://weaponsonline.proboards76.com/in ... 705&page=1

Although its the most common type its been the hardest to get as the Indian army/militia/police still have them as reserve equipment.

I've also got the Model 1925-1926, Model 1928-1929 and Mk II (but with the wrong butt :-{() The accessories are proving harder to get than the guns themselves.

Yup the ZGBs where in .303 but perversely the magazines <i>just</i> don't fit the Bren.. A number of them with Irish markings turned up at Beltring.

ATB

Tom
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tom, when did Ireland adopt hte ZGB?

Pat
Tom Ready
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I'm not sure, a mate is looking into it, and its not helped by ZGBs often being refered to as Brens. He's found pre war references from their parliment refering to them only having had a few delivered but he's yet to find out if they were really ZGBs or did we pass on our ZGBs onto them later in lieu of Brens we were supposed to have supplied to them from pre war contracts.

Just to muddy the waters as well as the FF in a circle Irish army markings the mags have broad arrow stamps as well...

ATB

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Sam Cox</i>
<br />Heck

You guys know way too much

Sam

Sam Cox
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Tom definitely is the acknowledged British Machingun Master. No doubt about it.

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Tom, did any of the British ZGBs remain in use by WWII, or were they all off line by then?

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Tom Ready
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As far as I know they were relegated to training units and never saw active service but in the dark days after Dunkirk, who knows?

Peter Laidler is in the process of getting his Bren tome published, I think it's in Canada (if not its the US) so there should be a lot more info on the Bren and such soon.

Just sent the eldest to get a copy of "Bren Gun Saga" to see what else about the ZGB is in it.

The only numbers I can see at first glance is a order for 43 guns with tripods in 1934. In 1935 the ZGB33 became the Bren officially

ATB

Tom
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was the bren as packed by cavalry a tripod affair?
Sam Cox

Any photo i am kind enough to share may not be used without proper credit to myself or www.militaryhorse.org

This is kind of like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted given my recent experience but i live in hope.
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