Entrenching Tools

[Jim Bewley]

Is anyone familiar with this?

Annual Report of the Secretary of War-Report of the Chief of Ordnance-1903, Ordnance Department,
GPO, Washington, page 384: De Thierry - flexible saddletrees. - November 9, 1901, the Board made
provision for procuring from Mr. F. de Thierry, the inventor, twelve saddles with flexible trees, which were finished
at Rock Island Arsenal and submitted to test by cavalry troops. The reports received showed that these saddles were
inferior to the McClellan tree, and on April 3, 1903, the Board recommended that they be not adopted.

http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA384& ... ar&f=false

When did the folding entrenching tool become an issue item?

Jim

[Pat Holscher]

For some reason, I have it in mind that the folding spade variety came in during WWII, but I don't know why I think that.

[Jim Bewley]

For some reason, I have it in mind that the folding spade variety came in during WWII, but I don't know why I think that.

That is what I thought too, Pat. I saw that they were considered in this report and rejected, so I was curious.

Jim

[Couvi]

This is an interesting question. The 'T-handle' was used in WWII and the folding entrenching tool that I am familiar with came out in about the mid-1950's with the 1956-pattern material. Some were shovels, and some were shovels with picks, but, I don't know if these were a different model or a different production. In WWI, the trenches were already established, but, the Pioneer Infantry carried real long-handled shovels and picks, but, I know nothing about entrenching tools of that period.

[Pat Holscher]

I did a little digging (yeah, I know, bad pun, ) and it seems the folding blade entrenching tool was the M1943 entrenching tool.

Couvi mentioned the t-handle entrenching tool, and I've also seen photos of those in use during World War Two, and I had it dimly in mind that they were the standard in WWI. But I can also recall a Mauldin cartoon with one of his soldiers using the folding spade tool. Mauldin is actually a really good source for items in common use by troops in the ETO, as he was amazingly accurate in what he depicted, based exclusively on what he was actually seeing, so the M1943s must have been in relativity common circulation in the ETO. He also depicts the t-handle shovel in use.

According to what I was reading, the pick variant was a 1945 production tool. It looks handy, and I wonder why that hasn't carried on to the modern e-tool?

Apparently the original carrier was the M1943 carrier, but a new carrier came in as Couvi notes.

OliveDrab.com has an article about e-tools, but their article claims the pick feature was added in 1951.

http://olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear_intrenching.php

They also identify the earlier pattern as the M1910, which I think I have seen discussed elsewhere. Indeed, I think we have an old e-tool thread up here, but I couldn't find it.

They also discuss the M1943 carrier and note that the new carrier was the M1956. The current pattern is the M1967.

Here's a wartime poster featuring the t-handle entrenching tool:



I suppose the M1910, which of course was used throughout WWII, would be the only pattern we'd expect to find in use, if we would expect to find it in use, for late pattern cavalrymen. As we have discussed elsewhere on the forum, some thought was given to digging implements to be used by late period cavalrymen, although I don't know that this would have included the M1910 e-tool in any fashion.

The one source I read claimed that the M1943 pattern was based on a German e-tool, but every WWII German e-tool I've ever seen a photo of was simply a very short spade with a somewhat square blade. These do not fold. That pattern was carried on, like many WWII German patterns, into post war East German service and I've seen them for sale fairly recently in surplus stores.

As a total aside, but perhaps swinging back to the topic of the site, anyone who has been to Little Big Horn has seen the rifle pits there. I also know of a place in the Big Horns where cavalrymen dug rifle pits, which are also still visible. Its amazing to think that these troopers were digging their pits with knives, plates and, if they were lucky, shovels. Digging in most Western locations is very difficult, and it's often struck me how hard it must have been to have done that.

[Jim Bewley]

Very interesting link Pat. I can remember using a pick type at some point in time (late 60's), but others in the unit had one with just the shovel part, so I'm guessing it was simply a mixed stock of tools on hand. I honestly can say that I never saw one in Nam (early 70's), but I'm sure the were around.

Jim

[Trooper]

There was of course the trowel bayonet:
http://www.archive.org/details/reportse ... 00statgoog

http://trapdoorcollector.com/M68TrowelBayt.html

There was an Entrenching tool of 1880:
http://classicwarblades.auctivacommerce ... 96473.aspx

and the 1880 Hunting Knife was intended for dual use as an entrenching tool :
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E6NZ ... fe&f=false

http://rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/54/lid/402

http://springfieldedge.com/hunt_knife_m-1880.html

The above are from a quick Google search, more detailed information is available.
My own work covers the Hunting knife...

[Pat Holscher]

There was of course the trowel bayonet:
http://www.archive.org/details/reportse ... 00statgoog

http://trapdoorcollector.com/M68TrowelBayt.html

There was an Entrenching tool of 1880:
http://classicwarblades.auctivacommerce ... 96473.aspx

and the 1880 Hunting Knife was intended for dual use as an entrenching tool :
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E6NZ ... fe&f=false

http://rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/54/lid/402

http://springfieldedge.com/hunt_knife_m-1880.html

The above are from a quick Google search, more detailed information is available.
My own work covers the Hunting knife...

I don't know much about any of these patterns, but appearance wise they look like a selection of bad compromise options.

That trowel like bayonet in particular looks too anemic to be a good spade, and to trowel like to be useful as a bayonet. If a guy was going to do some cement finishing it might be handy, however.

[noworky]

Here is a picture of an interesting US Cavalry marked entrenching tool cover I have. It statrted out as a M1905 model made in 1910 and was arsenal converted to a M1910 model sometime down the road. I use it for a cover on a M1912 experimental entrenching tool I can't afford the real leather ones made for the 1912.

[Jim Bewley]

There was of course the trowel bayonet:
http://www.archive.org/details/reportse ... 00statgoog

http://trapdoorcollector.com/M68TrowelBayt.html

There was an Entrenching tool of 1880:
http://classicwarblades.auctivacommerce ... 96473.aspx

and the 1880 Hunting Knife was intended for dual use as an entrenching tool :
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E6NZ ... fe&f=false

http://rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/54/lid/402

http://springfieldedge.com/hunt_knife_m-1880.html

The above are from a quick Google search, more detailed information is available.
My own work covers the Hunting knife...

Nice links, thanks. I guess trying to keep weight down, thus having to come up with a multi-purpose, had some growing pains in the beginning. None seem to be best for either intended job, but was better then nothing when the chips were down.

The knife shown in one link, as a "jet pilots knife", was the standard issue knife in Nam. It was simply called a "survival knife" (by us anyway) and I learned to actually throw it with some degree of accuracy.

Jim

[Pat Holscher]

Here is a picture of an interesting US Cavalry marked entrenching tool cover I have. It statrted out as a M1905 model made in 1910 and was arsenal converted to a M1910 model sometime down the road. I use it for a cover on a M1912 experimental entrenching tool I can't afford the real leather ones made for the 1912.

Very nice example. Thanks for posting the photos.

[Pat Holscher]

Bump.

[jan]

"The one source I read claimed that the M1943 pattern was based on a German e-tool, but every WWII German e-tool I've ever seen a photo of was simply a very short spade with a somewhat square blade. These do not fold. That pattern was carried on, like many WWII German patterns, into post war East German service and I've seen them for sale fairly recently in surplus stores."

Pat, Besides the short non folding spade the German army adopted in 1938 a folding model with leather carrier, around 1942 a simpler carrier, the one on the photo, in pressed paper with leather straps was introduced for this shovel.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Riders of the 8.SS Kavallerie-Division 'Florian Geyer" in Russia are seen wearing here such folding shovels.


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Jan

[Pat Holscher]

"The one source I read claimed that the M1943 pattern was based on a German e-tool, but every WWII German e-tool I've ever seen a photo of was simply a very short spade with a somewhat square blade. These do not fold. That pattern was carried on, like many WWII German patterns, into post war East German service and I've seen them for sale fairly recently in surplus stores."

Pat, Besides the short non folding spade the German army adopted in 1938 a folding model with leather carrier, around 1942 a simpler carrier, the one on the photo, in pressed paper with leather straps was introduced for this shovel.



Riders of the 8.SS Kavallerie-Division 'Florian Geyer" in Russia are seen wearing here such folding shovels.



Jan

The links aren't working right now, but they were earlier, and I have to say, good catch Jan. I had no idea that there was a German folding e-tool, but sure enough, there was.

[Pat Holscher]

World War Two dated M1910 entrenching tool on sale at Jax's Sporting Goods in Ft. Collin's Colorado, several months ago:

[jan]

Links to the above photos are restored.

Jan

[Brian P.]

There was a thread on the US Militaria forum recently about a 1905 era folding shovel. It was only used in trials, but did manage to find its way into a photo in a manual.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=140863&hl=shovel

[Sam Cox]

World War Two dated M1910 entrenching tool on sale at Jax's Sporting Goods in Ft. Collin's Colorado, several months ago:

Cool jacket!

[Pat Holscher]

Cool jacket!

Indeed it is! That jacket's been a huge hit.