Hungarian Military Saddle?

[Anulf]

I saw this on Facebook but the "Bing" Translator is crap! Anybody understand Hungarian.

http://csikosnyerges.blogspot.ca/

It looks like a Saddlemakers blog and he has made a few(?) replica(s) of it looks like a model 35(?) cavalry saddle.

Sort of a cross between an UP saddle and a German Cavalry saddle maybe?

[Barefoot]

It happens to be my blog. The replicas there are pattern 35 (with minor modifications). The 35M is closer to the UP than the armeesattel. It is bulit on a sviwel tree. The steel arches are connected with slightly curved thick wall tubes that act as axis for the side bars. The side bars are made of spring steel sewn between two layers of leather and lined with felt. The seat is formed of a piece of rawhide.

[Anulf]

Ah yes! I remember you from the Armeesattel 25 thread.

So this M35 is a Hungarian military model? If so, is there somewhere on the web with some history on the the saddle,... in English? I am trying to gather information on the Hungarian Cavalry,... history, equipment, horses during the Second World War but in most cases I'm going to have to learn Hungarian,...which I've heard is one of the easiest languages of Europe to learn

[Barefoot]

I'm pretty sure there isn't any english language site with information about this line of saddles. There must be a couple of pages about firearms, but nothing about saddles and other tack. In fact I'd be happy to have a good reliable hungarian source. I'm in the process of finding an expert with help from the military history museum.

[Pat Holscher]

Do you guys mind if I move this out of the UP section, to the general discussion section?

[Anulf]

Be my guest!

[Anulf]

Barefoot,
Can you tell me what this saddle is at 1:24 of this video. It kind of looks like an Up but,...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuHvUJO8Xb0

[tmarsh]

Barefoot, Awesome job! could you email me through the forum, i have some questions for you regarding this saddle also about fabrication. I have just finished redoing a 25. Tom

[Barefoot]

Barefoot,
Can you tell me what this saddle is at 1:24 of this video. It kind of looks like an Up but,...

[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuHvUJO8Xb0][/url]

We live in a surprizingly small world and the internet is making it even smaller I know the guys in the video. I got a phone call some time ago about repairing old saddles, maybe building a new one. The man who called told me that he sold two military saddles not long ago because he couldn't repair them. It turn out that the saddles were bought by friends of mine - the guys on the video. I was interested because these sounded to be rare types so I called my friend, Csepin Péter to ask him about the saddles. We agreed that I'll go and take a look at the saddles but I didn't have time to do so and Péter took the saddles to a long ride (to scandinvia and back on horseback). So I tried to find out the type of the saddles by watching the exact same videos I suspect it to be a 27M saddle but I'm not sure. It could be an officer's saddle. Those were custom made with lighter trees, and quality leather.

[Anulf]

What era or time period do Peter and his friends portray by their costumes? I noted a Persian style sabre in one of the videos.

I gather that this is not the first "long ride" he has done. Do they have a website or are there videos from other rides?

[Barefoot]

It's the 16th century they're trapped in
Their website is at: http://bakonyiporoszkalok.hu/

[tmarsh]

Barefoot, This saddle type is simalar to the model 1890's austio/hungarian saddle used by both cavalry and artillery? This type was used in the 30's and 40's? Have you ridden one? Is the seat comfortable? Is it close to the horse or do you feel elevated? What material did you use for the quilting on the seat? Felt? Is it machine stitch or hand stitched? Is it hard to make the panel with canvas cover on the model 25 type saddle? Nice job! Tom

[Barefoot]

The model 1899 saddle is similar in looks and feel but there are structural differences. The 99M features cast steel arches and side bars formed of thick steel plates (boat-like pieces). Unlike 35M the 99M's side bars are rigid and need no reinforcment. Since the tubes that give rigidity to sidebars of the 35M are not present in 99M the fixing of the billet straps and flaps and the lacing of the seat is quite different. This line of saddles was used in the 30's and 40's and a modified version was used after the war up to the dissmissal of horses from the army in the 50's. After that only the border guard used horses and they used the old saddles up to about 15 years ago.
I regularly ride these saddles. The seat is comfortable if the rawhide suspension is changed to resemble the pre-war saddles (it should be made wider). These saddles are definitely not the close contact type. The seat is elevated like in traditional wooden saddles.
The seat is not quilted but stuffed. Originally pig hair was used because it does not shrink to felt and keeps springy. Since this material is not available now I use the same material that woud be used to stuff panels. It is hand stiched.
The canvas panel on the armeesattel are not that hard to make. Originals are machine stiched on the straight sides and hand stiched on corners and the round back part. The best way is to take off an old canvas, iron it and use as pattern. I mark the points on the canvas where simple stiching changes to wrinkling and back. There's a fold in the canvas at the front upper corner. The stiching at the back is hidden, you need a special knife for that to cut (or a deadly accurate hand). Stuffing takes a little pratice but nothing superhuman

[Anulf]

You know, I'd like to see an enlargment of your profile photo. What type of saddle are you using there? Is it one of your own construction? It's alittle hard to tell but do you have it packed for a 'long ride' or are you leading a tour?

[Barefoot]

I can't seem to find that photo but i have another one uploaded from the same journey:
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2088419 ... 3855KZZWre
It was done in 2009 for the 770th anniversary of Cumans entering Hungary. King Bela IV. rode from the middle of the country to the border at Radnai pass (Rotunda, Romania now) to meet the Cuman leader Köten.
The saddle I used was 47M used by the border guard earlier.

[Anulf]

I've just come across a Blog post about Hungarian Saddle:

http://dariocaballeros.blogspot.ca/search/label/Hungarian%20saddle

http://dariocaballeros.blogspot.ca/2012/04/hungarian-saddle-continued-jean-roemer.html

Even a drawing and comments by Gen. McClellan,...

[Larry Emrick]

Gentlemen:
I have in my care a saddle very similar to two of the ones in the first blog, the light-coloured one and the brown one.
It carries a brass tag that reads: V. Holzknecht Prague and was once owned by Col. Alois Podhajsky, former director of the Spanish Riding School in Vienna. When Col. Podhajsky came to Vancouver he brought the saddle with him.
It has swivelling sidebars and unlike the UP seat, which is suspended on fabric , this one is suspended on rawhide strings, which can been seen in one of the above photos.
I have never ridden it, but one of our young riders used it in a demonstration ride at our fall fair. She found it comfortable but more deep-seated than the English tack with which she is familiar.
Col. Podhajsky was instrumental in saving the Spanish Riding School Lipizzaners during the war, after which he occasionally came to Vancouver to ride with Antoinette Bentley .
Antoinette was considered one of the best dressage riders in the world in the 1930s, before women were allowed to compete in Olympic equestrian events.
After the family moved from Austria and became established in Vancouver she trained with Col. Podhajsky.
When she died she bequeathed the saddle, her side saddle and a riding crop to the local riding club, for which I care for it.

Larry

[Anulf]

I think I have seen photos of it on another thread.

As part of the Austro-Hungarian empire I would imagine that this type of saddle would be made for the army by saddlers throughout the empire. This design must have successfully won out over others as time went by.