Prices at the Dawn of the Gasoline Age, Dusk of the Equine

[Pat Holscher]

Re "dog cart":

http://books.google.com/books?id=6cIoqI ... 22&f=false

[Pat Holscher]

Tibury gig (dog cart as referred to immediately above):

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/resu ... width=1366

[hbtoday98]

benz put hie engine into a dog cart and fitted steering the motor sits under the back where the hound where it called a car to day.

[hbtoday98]

pat
The one we worked on is like this one it is one of 4 in the world it has tiller steering and can wobble at speed it was found running a saw bench cutting up fire wood http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Sep08/12_0 ... _1894.html

[selewis]

Wow, there are quite a few vehicles that go by that name. Here is what I was referring to:

http://www.wildhorsebooks.com/Plans/Tho ... g_Cart.JPG

note the air vents.

[Pat Holscher]

Wow, there are quite a few vehicles that go by that name. Here is what I was referring to:

http://www.wildhorsebooks.com/Plans/Tho ... g_Cart.JPG

note the air vents.

Now that' s interesting. That sort of dog cart is very similar to the Tilbury, which was also called a dog cart. I wonder if the use of that term for the Tilbury comes about for that reason, again perhaps derisively, or perhaps not.

[Pat Holscher]

benz put hie engine into a dog cart and fitted steering the motor sits under the back where the hound where it called a car to day.

download/file.php?id=1534

Nice horse drawn vehicle.

[Pat Holscher]

pat
The one we worked on is like this one it is one of 4 in the world it has tiller steering and can wobble at speed it was found running a saw bench cutting up fire wood http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Sep08/12_0 ... _1894.html

When you see very early vehicles such as this, the meaning of the term "Horseless Carriage" really becomes obvious.

[Pat Holscher]

Anyone know of the first military purchase of a motor vehicle? Any army, any motor vehicle?

[selewis]

By the way, I tried to chase down the origin of the word buggy. It ended at a dead end in the OED: origin unknown, with no speculation whatever.

[Couvi]

Wow, there are quite a few vehicles that go by that name. Here is what I was referring to:

http://www.wildhorsebooks.com/Plans/Tho ... g_Cart.JPG

note the air vents.

There is a four-wheeled vehicle called a 'Roof Seat Break' that falls into this category. Those who couldn't ride were seated on top and the dogs were carried in the body of the vehicle. Note the air vents. http://scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(Carriages).htm#Roof

[Couvi]

Wow, there are quite a few vehicles that go by that name. Here is what I was referring to:

http://www.wildhorsebooks.com/Plans/Tho ... g_Cart.JPG

note the air vents.

There is a four-wheeled vehicle called a 'Roof Seat Break' that falls into this category. Those who couldn't ride were seated on top and the dogs were carried in the body of the vehicle. Note the air vents. http://scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(Carriages).htm#Roof

[selewis]

Thanks Couvi, but I'm not getting through with that link.

[Couvi]

Thanks Couvi, but I'm not getting through with that link.

http://scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(Carriages).htm#Roof

Try this one.

http://www.privateermedia.com/Carriages/carriages.htm

Note the door in the back to insert the hounds. They are difficult to see, but there are louvers on the sides to allow air to circulate to the dogs. The Fort Sill Hunt Club had one until the club was disbanded in the 1990's.

[selewis]

Very nice, thanks. Beside the brakes I was also taken with the cutters-so nicely restored- and, what one doesn't often see, the bob sleigh. Cutters were cheap and plentiful but the bob sleigh with its articulating center was more expensive to make.

[Steve Haupt]

Greetings,
Here's another sporting vehicle the Cocking Cart. Made so you and your friends could go the cockfights with the birds under neath.You can view this and other carriages with descriptions at
http://caaonline.com/caa_content.asp?Pa ... 15&MCat=16

ATilbury cart is a one horse two person vehicle that is very comfortable to ride in. It was considered a "Park" vehicle for driving and showing off in the park.

There maybe other uses for the term dog cart but the one I am familiar with designates a cart with a compartment below for transporting hunting dogs.

Not the same thing.

These "dog carts" were small buggies pulled by a single horse and seating only two. I think they were probably called that derisively, as they were so small that they resembled the type of car that, elsewhere, could be pulled by a dog. They were popular with "swells" in the East in the late 19th Century.[/quote]

The orginal dog carts be they 2 or 4 wheel were used to transport the hounds to the hunt as SELEWIS states. Generally they used two horses in tandem with the lead horse under saddle and out of draft to be fresh at the hunt with a 2 wheel.
The Roof Seat Breaks were a modification of the Breaking wagons that allowed spectators to follow the hunt or to go to the races and park sans horses ala portable grandstand above the riffraff. The compartment underneath became useful for either dogs or picnics.I have a photo of the Leavenworth Hunt with a four horse postillion team being ridden by Negro soldiers pulling a roof seat break up a hill.(somewhere)Now days on the quail plantations they use a truck tired wagon pulled by mules to transport dogs and shooters.So what is old is new again.

Having driven and ridden in many dog carts (2 and 4 wheel) I think they are still "Swell" today.(Sorry I had to.)
Cheers,
Steve Haupt
http://HauptsValleyFarm.mystarband.net

[BobH]

Back to part of the title, prices, saw a recent piece discussing oil speculation:
boards.fool.com/morgan-stanley-the-largest-american-oil-company-27341268.aspx

Google also shows articles from Jan 2009 where Morgan-Stanley leased/bought unused supertankers to store oil off shore awaiting rises in prices, e.g. buying commodities and holding until prices go up - classic speculating.

Other sources suggest ~ 25% of the current price of gas & diesel is driven by non-petroleum company speculation - so > $1 of the cost of fuels if from Wall Street, not Houston. And THAT drives up the price of hay, feed, your farrier's travel ...

If it weren't for the feed prices - or fuel for a harvester & bailer - those horse & 'dog carts' would look like a pretty good alternative to my Dakota!

Bob Hillery
Stratham, NH

[wkambic]

I agree that "speculation" has played a role in recent price increases, but this kind of speculation (buying up the product or contracts for the procuct) will only work in a market that is not well supplied. If there is an abundance of the commodity then this strategy is a short road to bankruptcy.

Oil is generally "fungible" (a barrel from the U.S. is littel different from one in Mexico or Saudi). While I recognize that different crude can have different physical properties and values, in the same "class," from a finanaical perspective one will be same as another. This means that "international pricing" will be the rule. That's not so good for the U.S., but works better for the world.

We beat the speculators by ensuring the market is well supplied and by intelligent use of the product. If we fail on either count then we reward the speculators.

[Pat Holscher]

Google also shows articles from Jan 2009 where Morgan-Stanley leased/bought unused supertankers to store oil off shore awaiting rises in prices, e.g. buying commodities and holding until prices go up - classic speculating.

I wonder how that is actually done. Surely they can't just sit their floating around for years, and must be in operation. Has to be a system to it.

[Pat Holscher]

http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin ... IZE=medium