Prices at the Dawn of the Gasoline Age, Dusk of the Equine

[Couvi]

All this seems really knew, but on electric cars, I recall my father telling me that it was one of his earliest memories to see President Eisenhower's mother in law (at that time, he wouldn't have been President, but probably something like Captain Eisenhower) driving her electric car in Denver. Apparently she kept the car through the rest of her life, and even in the 50s, if she needed to drive somewhere, she drove it. Early in the automobile era there were steam cars, gas cars, and electric cars. I guess there was some technological rivalry as to which would come out on top. Perhaps we're somewhat repeating that era?

I believe that the mother-in-law's electric car is still in the Eisenhower Presidential Museum in Abilene, KS. As I recall the seat went around the cabin and the driver sat in the back in the middle of the seat.

And on wind generators, I've been told more than once that prior to the Depression, a lot of ranchers and farmers would put up a generator on an old windmill. Granted, they were really only powering a few lights and a radio, and it must have been very unreliable, but it's interesting to see how that has come back.

There was a brand called a 'Wind Charger' that was popular in this part of the country, and you are right, they really only powered a few lights and a radio

[JV Puleo]

That description is right for the sort of cars electrics were. They were never viable as "over the road" vehicles for a host of reasons, mostly centering on the impossibility of making batteries that would give them any range. (A problem which still hasn't really been solved) There were electric taxi cabs and some very powerful electric trucks but these all date from before 1905, most from before 1900. By then it was obvious that electrics had nowhere to go and progress on internal combustion had established its overwhelming superiority.

Electrics hung on as "old ladies cars" - for wealthy old ladies. They were ideal for the lady making her social rounds or going into town to shop. They were quiet and devoid of offensive smells, dripping oil and crunching gears. They required no starting handle so the lady could just get in and quietly and smoothly drive away by herself. But, no one expected to go more than 40 or 50 miles before it had to be recharged and the recharging equipment often took up the whole wall of the garage. If you didn't have an indoor place to store it, you were out of luck.

A popular one was "Wood's Electric" which lasted up until around 1920. I know of one that was in everyday use around here until the early 50s, by which time the lady who owned it was in her 90s and gave up driving.

[Couvi]

If I recall correctly, the first trucks purchased by the US Army were two electric trucks that bore a striking resemblance to the WWI FWD trucks. They were purchased for the Signal Corps sometime after the Spanish-American War and before the turn of the century. They must not have been terribly successful as I have seen nothing on them since.

[Pat Holscher]

A Casper Star Tribune article that sort of sheds light on some of the topics discussed here:

http://www.trib.com/articles/2009/07/19 ... 0157b9.txt

This article discusses an entire town disappearing. But it misses part of the reason for that. The town was only a few miles from another, that being the town of Midwest. Midwest is just about four or five miles from another, Edgerton. And Midwest is only about 50 miles from Casper. So the town in the article was probably only about 30 or 40 miles from Casper.

When it was founded, travel conditions would have made the town probably both necessary and viable. But by the 30s, when it disappeared, it was really redundant and inefficient, it's role having been taken over by older and slightly larger Midwest.

Today, Midwest and Edgerton are sort of shadows of their former selves as well.

[Pat Holscher]

Brickwork on a building in Deadwood SD gives us a glimpse at a lost world of automobiles.

[Pat Holscher]

I've recently, as otherwise noted here on the forum, put up some photos of Australians in World War Two, with horses. There we learned the interesting information that 35% of the Australian population was rural in 1940. In looking it up, according to one book I ran across on the net, the farm population (as opposed to the rural population, which is different) was between 21 and 25 percent in the US, but by 1950 was down to 15%.

Also, on a related note, I've run across a lot of photos in the south east (Appalachia, really) showing day to day routine horse use as late as the 40s. Some of it is really of a nature I'd not have guessed at, such as a young woman taking her son somewhere, by horse.

I'm beginning to wonder how long the "dusk of the equine" actually lasted in the Western World. When I started this thread, I really had the 1900 to 1918 period in mind, but it's pretty clear the dusk lingered on in some places for a really long time, and everywhere a little bit longer than I'd have imagined.

[Joseph Sullivan]

Pat:

Horses worked the streets of Chicago right through the 1940s. My father, who grew up near there, remembers them well. In fact, one of his grandfathers had a dairy outside the city and would use a horse-drawn delivery wagon to run his routes in the small towns there. I recall one or two horse-drawn vendors there in early 1960 when I lived there with my parents for two years in 1st and 2nd grade.

In the 1930s and 1940s my grandmother used a pony trap to go to town for groceries in the town of Barrington, outside Chicago. They had one automobile, and the trap. Her husband would have the car during the day. She enjoyed driving the trap, anyway. The pony was of a competitive nature and liked to race the fast Chicago Northwestern passenger trains. Everybody including the trainmen, grandma, and the pony thought this was great sport until grandpa found out. As grandma was a semi-invalid anyway, he was quite worried about the risks of racing locomotives and talked her out of it. Not being Tenbrooks or Longjohn, the pony did not BEAT the train, but he did give it a go.

My father-in-law inherited a 1,000 acres cotton farm in the Arkansas delta. He completed the conversion to tractors in the early 1950s. At one point he burned harnesses for 40 mules -- which had been the working complement, more or less, to keep that much land under cultivation.

[Pat Holscher]

Pat:

Horses worked the streets of Chicago right through the 1940s. My father, who grew up near there, remembers them well. In fact, one of his grandfathers had a dairy outside the city and would use a horse-drawn delivery wagon to run his routes in the small towns there. I recall one or two horse-drawn vendors there in early 1960 when I lived there with my parents for two years in 1st and 2nd grade.

In the 1930s and 1940s my grandmother used a pony trap to go to town for groceries in the town of Barrington, outside Chicago. They had one automobile, and the trap. Her husband would have the car during the day. She enjoyed driving the trap, anyway. The pony was of a competitive nature and liked to race the fast Chicago Northwestern passenger trains. Everybody including the trainmen, grandma, and the pony thought this was great sport until grandpa found out. As grandma was a semi-invalid anyway, he was quite worried about the risks of racing locomotives and talked her out of it. Not being Tenbrooks or Longjohn, the pony did not BEAT the train, but he did give it a go.

My father-in-law inherited a 1,000 acres cotton farm in the Arkansas delta. He completed the conversion to tractors in the early 1950s. At one point he burned harnesses for 40 mules -- which had been the working complement, more or less, to keep that much land under cultivation.

Your grandmother was obviously a woman of spirit.

Your example is a good one of what I otherwise recently noted in another thread. We certainly lived a lot closer to livestock and animals, and had the opportunity to do so, as recently ago as a few decades. I have to wonder how many urban horses there were even as late as the 50s?

Somebody has written a book on that topic and I'll have to look it up. It might be pretty interesting.

[selewis]

The first horse I ever sat on was at a riding stable in Culver City (maybe Santa Monica) Calif. That was in 1955- January 20th to be exact. For those not familiar with the L.A. basin, that is smack dab in the middle of the city. The owner, Jute Smith, had 20-30 head there. Shortly thereafter the city fathers kicked him out and he set up operations in the Hollywood Hills not far from the Griffith Park observatory. I don't remember much about the original stables but well recall his new place. We rode in the hills mostly but several times a year would trail (not trailer) the horses through the city to get to the various parade venues throughout the area. I remember one of the difficulties entailed in riding back to the stables at night after the parades- or it seemed like such to me- was persuading a horse to step on the metal strip that actuated the stop lights to turn green. Five year old kids riding through the middle of Los Angeles at night , a different time.

Sandy

[CRB]

Shortly thereafter the city fathers kicked him out and he set up operations in the Hollywood Hills not far from the Griffith Park observatory.]

The stable is still there! Just down from the Observatory. I spent several years living at another stable on the other side of the park in the Equestrian District of Burbank and Glendale. I must say LA is set up for horses better than any large city I have been in.

[Pat Holscher]

Shortly thereafter the city fathers kicked him out and he set up operations in the Hollywood Hills not far from the Griffith Park observatory.]

The stable is still there! Just down from the Observatory. I spent several years living at another stable on the other side of the park in the Equestrian District of Burbank and Glendale. I must say LA is set up for horses better than any large city I have been in.

I just saw an article on trail rides in Los Angeles somewhere, but can't recall where. It really surprised me.

[CRB]

Riding in LA was a kick, especially at rush hour. One of the trails ran next to the 134 freeway, I loved the looks on drivers faces as you pass them on horseback. It is also a great place to desensitize a horse. Griffith Park is an amazing resource as are the neighborhoods and the associations that keep the area horse friendly. For all the bad press that LA gets it was by far the most horse friendly city I have ever lived in.

[selewis]

Shortly thereafter the city fathers kicked him out and he set up operations in the Hollywood Hills not far from the Griffith Park observatory.]

The stable is still there! Just down from the Observatory. I spent several years living at another stable on the other side of the park in the Equestrian District of Burbank and Glendale. I must say LA is set up for horses better than any large city I have been in.

Wow! Thank you so much for that. I had no idea- and assumed that with the price of real estate it had ceased to exist long ago. Next time I'm down that way I'll have to find it. I wonder if it is still in the same family. One thing I remember even at that young age is that Jute was always on the verge of going broke. My mother formed a riding club (Sunset Riders IIRC) and brought him a lot of customers so my siblings and I rode for free and pretty much had the run of the place.



One slight correction on further reflection (funny how things come back to you when you find a thread and think on it): my folks weren't quite so heedless of their children's welfare as my previous post would indicate. Five year olds? no. They would have ridden in the parade, but getting the horses back to the stables was primarily adults. I remember, now, pleading with my parents to be allowed to accompany them on that leg of the ride. I must have been 7, and so, an expert horseman at that point.

Sandy

[selewis]

By the way, Leo Carillo wrote a really neat, and touching, autobiography* which has some great descriptions of that area as it was in his youth. He writes about hunting ducks and deer and cougar in Santa Monica- possibly La Ballona creek, I'm not sure. He mentions a spring, The Tears of Santa Monica, around which the city grew. I went looking for it some years ago, albeit halfheartedly, but no one had heard of where I was asking about.

S

'My California'

[Pat Holscher]

By the way, Leo Carillo wrote a really neat, and touching, autobiography* which has some great descriptions of that area as it was in his youth. He writes about hunting ducks and deer and cougar in Santa Monica- possibly La Ballona creek, I'm not sure. He mentions a spring, The Tears of Santa Monica, around which the city grew. I went looking for it some years ago, albeit halfheartedly, but no one had heard of where I was asking about.

S

'My California'

According to Wikipedia, that spring is located where University High School now is. Their website mentions a Spring, albeit in a pre Christian context:

http://www.universitywildcats.org/about ... rn=5395676

[selewis]

By the way, Leo Carillo wrote a really neat, and touching, autobiography* which has some great descriptions of that area as it was in his youth. He writes about hunting ducks and deer and cougar in Santa Monica- possibly La Ballona creek, I'm not sure. He mentions a spring, The Tears of Santa Monica, around which the city grew. I went looking for it some years ago, albeit halfheartedly, but no one had heard of where I was asking about.

S

'My California'

According to Wikipedia, that spring is located where University High School now is. Their website mentions a Spring, albeit in a pre Christian context:

http://www.universitywildcats.org/about ... rn=5395676

Wow (again) thanks, Pat. There wasn't any wiki when I went looking. Today is a great learning experience.

[selewis]

It is not always apparent to the casual observer but there are a lot of things lying just below the veneer of modernity, even in our big cities, that attest to how quickly we have moved from horse to horseless. When I first moved to New England in 1971 there was still an unused but un-refurbished stable in downtown Boston, not far from Beacon Hill. It was all boarded up but we managed to ,ahem, gain access and could see the remains of the tie stalls. Also, what surprises a lot of people is that most of the streets downtown were still bare cobblestone until the late 50's early 60's. Of course they still are, underneath the blacktop, as anyone who has driven on them will affirm.

Some years ago, many actually, when I visited Montreal I was impressed with the lively carriage trade there. Most large cities have some such thing comprised of fine reproductions of elegant broughams and the like but in Montreal they were old car chassis pulled by plow horses. This was in the touristy, old part of town but, still, it was neat to see the ingenuity- a sort of seamless blend of old and new without the pretense of recreating the past. (of course the highlight of the trip and my reason for going was to visit the home ice of the Canadiens: the Montreal Forum)

Sandy

[Pat Holscher]

By the way, Leo Carillo wrote a really neat, and touching, autobiography* which has some great descriptions of that area as it was in his youth. He writes about hunting ducks and deer and cougar in Santa Monica- possibly La Ballona creek, I'm not sure. He mentions a spring, The Tears of Santa Monica, around which the city grew. I went looking for it some years ago, albeit halfheartedly, but no one had heard of where I was asking about.

S

'My California'

According to Wikipedia, that spring is located where University High School now is. Their website mentions a Spring, albeit in a pre Christian context:

http://www.universitywildcats.org/about ... rn=5395676

Wow (again) thanks, Pat. There wasn't any wiki when I went looking. Today is a great learning experience.

Shoot, no problem. By looking it up, I now know something about Santa Monica I didn't before. Indeed, I don't know anything about Santa Monica, and I don't think I've ever been there (although I have been to Los Angeles).

[Pat Holscher]

It is not always apparent to the casual observer but there are a lot of things lying just below the veneer of modernity, even in our big cities, that attest to how quickly we have moved from horse to horseless. When I first moved to New England in 1971 there was still an unused but un-refurbished stable in downtown Boston, not far from Beacon Hill. It was all boarded up but we managed to ,ahem, gain access and could see the remains of the tie stalls. Also, what surprises a lot of people is that most of the streets downtown were still bare cobblestone until the late 50's early 60's. Of course they still are, underneath the blacktop, as anyone who has driven on them will affirm.

Some years ago, many actually, when I visited Montreal I was impressed with the lively carriage trade there. Most large cities have some such thing comprised of fine reproductions of elegant broughams and the like but in Montreal they were old car chassis pulled by plow horses. This was in the touristy, old part of town but, still, it was neat to see the ingenuity- a sort of seamless blend of old and new without the pretense of recreating the past. (of course the highlight of the trip and my reason for going was to visit the home ice of the Canadiens: the Montreal Forum)

Sandy

That's really true.

There's a really neat old house here in town, owned by a relative of mine, that has a carriage house. It has to be one of the few ever built here, but it's still in really nice shape, now being used for a garage.

There's one place left, in that same neighborhood, where there's a ring in the sidewalk to tie up a horse. It's a unique, brick, sidewalk, which is probably why it's managed to last. There was a ring in a downtown sidewalk up until about two years ago, but they redid the sidewalk, and likely didn't know what it was for. So now it's gone. The prior sidewalk had been put in during the teens, when horses downtown still occurred.

Almost the entire human geography of the rural counties of the Mid West fits into this category also. If you travel the back highways, your kids always end up asking why there's a tiny town every few miles. Horse are the reason why. The towns tend to be spaced just evenly enough that the furthest out farmers could get there, and back home, in a day. That's not far really, if you have a wagon full of product to deliver.

The numerous abandoned farmsteads and homesteads also are mute testimony to the age of the horse. They were homesteaded when horsepower prevailed, and represented farming, or ranching, as it was when people had to depend on horses. A farmer could only farm so much. Internal combustion engines allowed them to farm much more.

[tmarsh]

Pat, I have to say that I am very fortunate because in my community horses still make up a very big part. Living in an area which has the greatest population of Amish west of the Missippi, buggys are as common as cars. Interesting too are the many places with hitching racks outside business. Just the other day at a sale a picket line was made with a rope tied to a tree and a steel wheel tractor. We have 2 harness shops,3 buggy shops and numerous horse shoers. Fun to watch horses still being worked in the fields. Tom