Practice executing the Charge (photo)

[Pat Holscher]

The 115th Cav, Pole Mountain, 1930s.


<font size="1">Photo published by permission of the Wyoming State Archives, Department of Parks and Cultural Resources. Copying is strictly prohibited</font id="size1">

Pat

[Sam Cox]

How in the heck did i miss this???
Blink and you are going to miss another Holscher classic.
Great stuff Pat
Regards
Sam

Sam Cox

[Pat Holscher]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Sam Cox</i>
<br />How in the heck did i miss this???
Blink and you are going to miss another Holscher classic.
Great stuff Pat
Regards
Sam

Sam Cox
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Sam, thanks, glad you enjoyed it.

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

For comparison and contrast, here's a photograph posted earlier by Joe Sullivan of another late era charge:



Pat

<font face="Arial Black">Published by permission of Joseph Sullivan. Copying strictly prohibited without prior consent</font id="Arial Black">

[Pat Holscher]

Another 115th photo, and a comparison to another charge. Joe, what outfit is that other unit?

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Sam Cox has a copy of the original photo of the 115th posted above, and unlike mine, his is dated May 15, 1941. The state archives set I obtained mine from was mixed as to date, and I've long wondered whether the set this was in was correct. With that date, it clearly was not.

Also, I believe that this would place this photo at Ft. Lewis.

Pat

[stablesgt]

Betcha a $ to a donut that if you had the original photo and took a magnifying glass to it, you will see on the campaign hat of the lead trooper the DI of the 3rd Cav. The stone wall in background is the western boundary of Arlington Cemetery that abuts Ft. Myer. Note the headstones behind the wall at right. They are galloping across the then parade ground. About where they are I believe now sits a medical center and behind them is now asphalt parking lot.

[Sam Cox]

Pat my photo was sent to me from a friend in the UK and the info is typed directly on to the reverse of the photo
Regards
Sam

Sam Cox

[Pat Holscher]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Sam Cox</i>
<br />Pat my photo was sent to me from a friend in the UK and the info is typed directly on to the reverse of the photo
Regards
Sam

Sam Cox
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I'm still pondering it. The terrain looks a lot like the Pole Mountain area, but the vegetative variation by apparently fenced or cultivated field in the background does not. I've never been to Ft. Lewis, so I don't know what it looks like.

One of the items weeded out by the sergeant mentioned in the other post was a photo of a trooper of the 115th at Ft. Lewis decked out in this style helmet, aiming at the photographer with his M1911, while jumping his horse over a log. Sort of fits with this one somehow.

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

Jim Ott sent us this very interesting photograph, 11th Cavalry, 1907. Thanks Jim!



Pat

[Trooper]

Jim,
Thanks indeed - is there any information to go with the picture?
Dusan

[Jim Ottevaere]

Dusan,

Unfortunately I can offer nothing more on the history of this photo. I have had it in my collection for many years. The only identification is a faint date "1907" on the reverse and the "11" on the guidon. I confess that I have not done any research either, but on the original the background has a Ft Riley look to it, but that's only a guess. The 11th was in the Philipines in 1902 and on the Mexican border in 1916. So where were they in between? Anyone?

I was always facinated by the two troopers in the right foreground who do not have their sabers drawn and seem to be absorbed in a conversation as though they were on a trail ride or hack.

[Kelton Oliver]

I have some video captures of the "5th Texas Cavalry" executing a lance charge at the UCC-1. I hope to have some pictures up soon.

[Trooper]

Jim,
Thanks for the information.
My only source (Distribution Of Troops of the Line...AGO, July 1, 1909) on the period shows the entire regiment in the Philippines until April 1904, then
"...Kansas and Iowa, 1904 to 1906.
Cuba, Headquarters and E,F,G,H,I,K, and L, October 11,1906 to February 28, 1909.
Cuba, M, October 16, 1906, to February 28,1909.
(Four troops remained in Iowa to June, 1907, when they went to Vermont, where they are now)
Georgia, March 1909, to ------."
I deduce that the four troops remaining in Iowa or Vermont were A,B,C,and D. Perhaps we are viewing part of this detachment?

I must say that the innattentive pair had caught my eye too. Perhaps there was some confusion in the order as the rank behind them seems to be torn between halting and charging! Any guesses at the dialogue between the "discussing pair"?
Dusan

[Pat Holscher]

4th Cavalry, Ft. D. A. Russel, sometime prior to World War One.


<font size="1">Photo published by permission of the Wyoming State Archives, Department of Parks and Cultural Resources. Copying is strictly prohibited</font id="size1">

Pat

[Trooper]

Paul,
As the "discussing pair" seem to be part of Troop L (I think that's what the guidon letter is)it would seem likely that the photo was taken in Cuba. Those with better eyes are invited to correct this deduction. I would also guess that the sabres are the "Light Cavalry" (aka "M1860"), although it is possible they might be an early issue of the steel hilted M1906?

I would still be interested to hear possibilities for the subject of discussion that is so absorbing those two. I'll bet a real First Sergeant would have taken an interest as well!
Dušan

[Pat Holscher]

On the 11th one, while its hard to tell on my small screen, the bit arrangements look interesting. It looks like quite a few of the men are using double bridles, although not all. The trooper in front of the chatting troopers is using only a curb bit, it appears. The left chatting trooper has a double bridle.

Are the shirts that appear darker here the old blue shirt?

Pat

[Pat Holscher]

I enlarged the part of the photo with the talking cavalryman. You can see the two sets of reins better in this enlargement, although it shows up on other mounts in this photo better. Not all of them are using this, however, as the cavalryman immediately before the two talkers shows.



Pat

[Trooper]

Pat,
Thanks for the blowup - they look even more unconcerned and uninvolved when enlarged.
Paul, they are definitely congressmen - discussing whether the recent expenditure on those new fangled bits and bridles was justified. As they look happy perhaps cuts are contemplated?
Dušan

[Ron Smith]

When interviewing Lt. Colonel John Russell, USA (ret) he spoke of his time with the 9th Cavalry in Texas as a Lt. During a Regimental review all Troops were in line and the charge was to be executed.

When he looked back he stated that his Troop was gone and another was partially in its place. His basic thought of a charge was always a debacle in formation.

Regards,
ROn Smith