US Cav Photo - 1912 Experimental Equipment

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Michael Page
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Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:49 pm

I've had this image for a while and thought I'd post it; it's a nice photo of the 8th Cav in Texas and evidently shows some experimental equipment (bandoleers, rifle bucket) which I don't think one sees much in the old photos.

Can't tell if they've got their bayonets...
cav tex.JPG
cav tex.JPG (212.01 KiB) Viewed 6691 times
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Pat Holscher
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Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:25 am

Great photo!
Pat

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Pat Holscher
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Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:01 am

Anyone recognize the town?
Pat

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Kurt Hughes
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Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:29 pm

Superb photo, showing some nice details. Thanks for sharing!
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Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:27 pm

If that picture is really in Texas, I'd guess that the town is El Paso, from the looks of the mountain behind.
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Brian P.
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Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:02 am

I'D guess that it is El Paso based on the label at the bottom of the photo! :D
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Trooper
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Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:42 am

Superb photo, showing some nice details. Thanks for sharing!
+1
Thank you.
Dušan
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Michael Page
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Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:41 am

Here's another photo showing the rifle belt and doughnut ring for the rifle. One can see the handle of the entrenching tool below the trooper's left hand, with picket pin handle. I believe the bayonet (handle near left shoulder) attached to the chest bandolier.
exp.JPG
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mmoore
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Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:50 pm

I did a search of “W.H. Horne Co, El Paso, Texas, USA” and found several sites with his photographs. Apparently he was a photographer and perhaps also had a post card company in El Paso during the Punitive Expedition time period.

The El Paso Public Library has a collection of some 619 photos by Mr. Horne (Horne, Walter H., 1883-1921) and a Mr. Otis A. Aultman and other unidentified photographers.

http://texashistory.unt.edu/explore/par ... e/?start=0

It would appear that Mr. Horne stayed with the US Military while Mr. Aultman crossed sides. In fact a biography of Aultman states that “…Aultman did become Villa's official photographer and friend. Aultman went through the entire revolutionary campaign capturing many of Villa's rebel activities.” Also “Aultman continued to cover Mexico, but now accompanying General John Pershing who led 5,000 troops in the $8 million Punitive Expedition into Mexico in search of Villa.”

http://epcc.libguides.com/content.php?p ... id=2604469
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Pat Holscher
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Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:11 am

Bump.
Pat

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Alex
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Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:04 am

Look guys what I've found on a the Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1912-US-Army-Ca ... 1c3e434a13

Somebody selling DVD with photos of M1912 equipment.

Image

Image

Image

P.S. Here's I have an objection - the guy sells photos he made at NARA. Okay, he made a trip, he bought permission and spends his own time, but to sell photos of an archive materials which is a nation property... Some of you may disagree with me, but it's just isn't right.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Alex
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Todd
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Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:46 am

Alex wrote: P.S. Here's I have an objection - the guy sells photos he made at NARA. Okay, he made a trip, he bought permission and spends his own time, but to sell photos of an archive materials which is a nation property... Some of you may disagree with me, but it's just isn't right.
Actually, it's a good thing.

NARA exists to preserve the material - other activities are secondary, including making collections more/completely accessible. It's a major pain and expense to actually go to their location(s) and access this material. There are researchers that make their living accessing and finding information for those that don't have the ability to do it themselves.

What he is actually selling is the service of taking copies of these images and making them available to a wide audience that wouldn't have the opportunity. The cost of the DVD probably wouldn't even pay for the first tank of gas to get there... cheap at the price, and a valuable service for many. These images being in the public domain have no restrictions other than this one of accessibility.

Even is these were being pulled from their online collections, the cost of collecting and organizing images into particular theme collections like this are also significant, just in time required to do that.
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Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:51 am

These are from the photo booklet that accompanied the 1912 Report. If I remember correctly, only 4 copies were made and at least one of these was lost long ago. There are also individual copies of some of the photos on the loose, as the Springfield Armories' copy of the photo showing the carrying method for the 1913 saber on the McClellan saddle is in their archives. I have no problem with someone copying the material and making it available. As Todd correctly says, its a huge service as anyone who has done NA research (or paid for it to be done) will gladly testify.

What I do have a problem with is the government licensing exclusive access to some material to a private company which then makes them available only to academic institutions. We have the problem with the Serial Set... available on line from only one source and if you are not a matriculating student or faculty member of one of the institutions that subscribes to the service, you can't use them. This is especially annoying when it is a state university — largely subsidized by the taxpayer. At this point, every basketball and football player at the University of Rhode Island has access but no non-academic researcher does. If the nitwits that negotiated that contract had any comprehension of historical research, they should have made it a condition that individuals could also subscribe to the service. To my mind it also reflects on the conceit of the academic world... acting as if this material was their exclusive property.
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Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:30 am

I agree with Dusan. Those photos are completely in the public domain, and while anyone can go find them can copy them, few do. If those few want to pay someone else for the copies, the market determines the value. On the other hand, if the government licenses IP that was or otherwise would be in the public domain, they are giving the licensee the privcate benefit of public property, which is not right.
Joe
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Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:43 am

Looking t the picture of the individual trooper I can clearly see the ring that captures the rifle while in the boot. How did this work? looks like it would have been hard to get the rifle into it, unless it opened and closed around it. Was it a lose fit or did it secure the rifle to the trooper? Dismounting or falling off looks like a hard thing to do.
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Todd
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Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:23 am

Jim Bewley wrote:Looking t the picture of the individual trooper I can clearly see the ring that captures the rifle while in the boot. How did this work? looks like it would have been hard to get the rifle into it, unless it opened and closed around it. Was it a lose fit or did it secure the rifle to the trooper? Dismounting or falling off looks like a hard thing to do.
It's a weird thing, the ring is leather-lined steel, set up with a wire hinge arrangement so that it could be extended or laid flat against the troopers belt. The rifle has a leather sleeve just around and above the front sling point, and that rested in the ring.

There was a strap with a specially formed snap at the end, that clipped into the trigger guard. That kept the rifle from coming out of the belt ring when the trooper was mounting, or waddling around with his new third leg wobbling around. The descending strap doesn't show in the pic of the individual - probably tucked up in belt.

Classic chasing-the-tail design, where the attempt to solve one problem cascades into causing problems with their own weird solutions down the line.
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Jim Bewley
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Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:58 pm

Todd wrote:
Jim Bewley wrote:Looking t the picture of the individual trooper I can clearly see the ring that captures the rifle while in the boot. How did this work? looks like it would have been hard to get the rifle into it, unless it opened and closed around it. Was it a lose fit or did it secure the rifle to the trooper? Dismounting or falling off looks like a hard thing to do.
It's a weird thing, the ring is leather-lined steel, set up with a wire hinge arrangement so that it could be extended or laid flat against the troopers belt. The rifle has a leather sleeve just around and above the front sling point, and that rested in the ring.

There was a strap with a specially formed snap at the end, that clipped into the trigger guard. That kept the rifle from coming out of the belt ring when the trooper was mounting, or waddling around with his new third leg wobbling around. The descending strap doesn't show in the pic of the individual - probably tucked up in belt.

Classic chasing-the-tail design, where the attempt to solve one problem cascades into causing problems with their own weird solutions down the line.

Thanks Todd. I did not realize that the rifle remained attached to the trooper all the time. That had to be a real pain to deal with.
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