Three Strap Boots II

A place for discussion of mounted services uniforms, headgear, footwear and related personal equipment of the horse soldier.
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Three Strap Boots II

Post by Pat Holscher » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:45 am

We've had a lot of discussion on three strap boots over the years. Here's one of the better threads on the topic:

topi ... IC_ID=1267

I've bumped up this archived thread as we often have discussed these boots in the context of ''cavalry'' boots. But riding boots were common amongst officers of all branches before WWII, and senior officers continued to wear them. I ran across this interesting photo of Gen. Alexander M. Patch in the winter of 44-45 demonstrating that.

Image

Patch was an infantry officer. He was the son of a cavalryman, and apparently had wanted to be one, but chose infantry upon graduating West Point in 1913 as he was farsighted, and already anticipated that the role of the cavalry would decline.


Pat

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Post by Pat Holscher » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:49 am

Here's another intersting one. This depicts Gen. Patton in the winter of 44-45. It's the only photo I've ever seen of a pair of high rubber overshoes for riding boots in military useage.

Image

I wonder if those were an official item?

Also, is Gen. Patton's parka an official item? Patton stuck to official patterns pretty much, contrary to the widely held belief to the contrary, and even where he did depart from them, he tended to make the same departures other officers did.

Pat

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Post by Pat Holscher » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:55 am

I also can't help note that, during WWII, whether they're wearing official uniforms or not, it's hard to find any two Allied generals in the ETO wearing the same uniform.

Pat

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Post by Pat Holscher » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:45 pm

And then there's breeches and boots in a really surprising context.

http://afsf.lackland.af.mil/Images/PICT0860.JPG

APs.

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Post by Ron Smith » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:39 pm

Three strap boots are still rather common with O3's and up. The CO (Capt)of the Armory we share w/112th CAV wears three strap deserts by Dehner.

One of our BG's who just retired when wearing BDU's always had 3 straps on, and you would find numerous CAV/Armor officers with them as well.

3 strap boots are pretty supportive but are sort of a pain to wear/put on. I "used" to wear a pair a lot but they just got to where they were too much trouble to put on and keep adjusted.

I think the 31 pattern ( all lace type) is a better bet for real riding boots that are used for go and not show.

Ron Smith

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Post by Pat Holscher » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:49 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ron Smith</i>
<br />
I think the 31 pattern ( all lace type) is a better bet for real riding boots that are used for go and not show.

Ron Smith
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's interesting. I've always wondered if the lace ups referenced a defacto switch to a greater emphasis on dismounted combat, as lace up boots are generally easier to get around with on the ground. I prefer cowboy boots for riding, for example, but will wear packers if I'm going to be doing a lot of ground work. And I'll often wear them for things that have nothing to do with riding.

I've wondered why the Army went from lace ups to the three straps right before WWII. There must have been a reason, but I don't know what it was. Perhaps it was simply the ease of putting them on, or perhaps an incrased emphasis in being mounted.

Pat

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Post by Philip S » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:25 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've wondered why the Army went from lace ups to the three straps right before WWII. There must have been a reason, but I don't know what it was. Perhaps it was simply the ease of putting them on, or perhaps an incrased emphasis in being mounted.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My impression is that the change was in response to complaints about the time it took to put the lace boots on. I suspect too that the three strap boots were cheaper to make. Also, there may be an element of fashion here with the recent adoption of the English style three strap boots for officers.

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Post by Pat Holscher » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:16 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Philip S</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've wondered why the Army went from lace ups to the three straps right before WWII. There must have been a reason, but I don't know what it was. Perhaps it was simply the ease of putting them on, or perhaps an incrased emphasis in being mounted.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My impression is that the change was in response to complaints about the time it took to put the lace boots on. I suspect too that the three strap boots were cheaper to make. Also, there may be an element of fashion here with the recent adoption of the English style three strap boots for officers.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Did all variants of the lace up boots have speed laces?

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Post by Ron Smith » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:33 pm

Pat,
Not all "lacers" had speed lacing. I "think" the speed lace variant was the 2nd pattern. The "engineer style" boot was used around the PE period on.

Of course officers had much latitude in what they wore but it was a popular field pattern for a long time.

I have noted this before that the 3 strap is denoted as a "Field Boot" for officers in official listings.

Ron Smith

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Post by Sam Cox » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:56 pm

Regarding the Patton photo,he is wearing above ankle overshoes over hi field boots
the detail is lost in translation
regards
Sam

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Post by wkambic » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:36 pm

I bought a pair of the Dehner three-straps and they are now my regular riding boot.

Around here you have to walk a lot to ride (100 yards house to barn; 100 yards barn to current paddock; a little ground work after grooming; walk the horse out after work; then reverse the process; if one of the far pastures is in use that second hundred yards becomes almost a 1/4 mile). I find the support of the laced foot/ankle to be a Good Thing. But lacing all the way up would be a bummer! [:P]

To make something lace faster you could try a very non-traditional method used by Air Forse alert crews (among others). For flight boots you can buy a "zipper with eyelets" insert. You remove the old lace in a boot, place the insert where the lace would be, then use two shorter laces (one on each side) to lace in and secure the insert. PRESTO! A pair of zippered flight boots.

Flight crews like them 'cause they go on fast (like slip ons) but don't get lost in ejections or on the opening shock of a parachute.

The support for walking of a good lace up boot can't be beat. The ease of a slip on really nice. The three-strap boots are a pretty good compromise, IMO. Of course, as in all things, YMMV. [;)]



Bill Kambic

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Post by Pat Holscher » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:12 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Sam Cox</i>
<br />Regarding the Patton photo,he is wearing above ankle overshoes over hi field boots
the detail is lost in translation
regards
Sam

Sam Cox
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Right you are. Mystery solved!

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Post by Sam Cox » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:02 pm

Never let it be said that i didnt do the least i could do(:

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Post by Ron Smith » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:38 pm

Like Bill I have 3 straps (originals though)and I do like the support they offer. Mine were new-unissued when I got them so I was able to break them in to fit me well.

But for me they are a PIA to put on, but when wearing certain types of breeches they are best in easing on boots over thicker breeches/socks. However I wear western boots w/jeans most of the time as 3 buckles and breeches don't suit ranch work very well, and the pul on has spoiled me. But then again I have always prefered dress type boots over field type anyway.

(I don't know how folks tolerate Paddock boots and half Chaps, talk about a PIA to put on..........)

Ron Smith

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Post by Philip S » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:19 am

“As a result of recommendations from the field, there has recently been approved as standard a new type of boot for the cavalry soldier. The new boot has a more durable shoe part. The leg part is closed by three straps and buckles which does away with the lacing of eyelets and hooks, thereby facilitating the putting on and taking off of the boot. This boot will be issued to the mounted service when the present supply of boots is exhausted...”

(p. 321, “The Cavalry Journal,” Jly-Aug 1940)

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Post by Jim Bewley » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:05 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">(I don't know how folks tolerate Paddock boots and half Chaps, talk about a PIA to put on..........)

Ron Smith <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ron, I agree about the current "half chaps" being a pain. I have become a real devotee to the strap legging, because (A)I get the look and protection of a full boot, (B) get good ankle support from the paddock boot and (C) the legging fits snug with no gaps or bunching. They are very easy to walk in as the paddock my mare is in currently is a long hike.

Jim

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Post by Pat Holscher » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:48 pm

Ron (and others) what are "half chaps"? Here a lot of us have chaps, and quite a few people also use chinks, which are becoming more and more common. Are chinks half chaps?

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Post by HawkHero » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:13 pm

Pat,

Half chaps are leggings that end below the knee, and are worn with a much shorter boot. Think of the M1917 leggings with service shoes, same idea.

The best boots I have worn were the Paul Revere Boots made by Fugawee Shoe Company. They're a 1770's design with a wooden shank in the sole for support. The funky thing is that they are straight last soles (no left or right) so you have to try each boot on both feet to see which was they fit best. I have had mine for five years and done lots of walking and riding in them and they have been fantastic.



Brian S Colonna

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Post by Pat Holscher » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:01 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by HawkHero</i>
<br />Pat,

Half chaps are leggings that end below the knee, and are worn with a much shorter boot. Think of the M1917 leggings with service shoes, same idea.

The best boots I have worn were the Paul Revere Boots made by Fugawee Shoe Company. They're a 1770's design with a wooden shank in the sole for support. The funky thing is that they are straight last soles (no left or right) so you have to try each boot on both feet to see which was they fit best. I have had mine for five years and done lots of walking and riding in them and they have been fantastic.



Brian S Colonna
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks. Half chaps like that are totally unknown here. But then paddock boots are almost unknown here.

Pat

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Post by Sam Cox » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:31 pm

i imagine there are some parts that paddock shoes would get you killed

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