Cavalry uniforms

A place for discussion of mounted services uniforms, headgear, footwear and related personal equipment of the horse soldier.
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Re: Cavalry uniforms

Post by Brian P. » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:07 am

I find this period fascinating for the study of uniforms and equipment. I agree with Pat that it must have caused many a young officer to tear his hair out trying to keep his bank account in order. We should add that the early olive colored cotton uniforms (pat. 1909) were colored with unstable dyes that faded relatively quickly. I'm sure that that further contributed to a motley appearance in the field.

Here is an interesting pic. It is labeled as 1910. Note that the troops seem to be in the pre-1909 khaki, while the young officer is wearing his brand, spanking new 1909 olive uniform:

http://www.haywardareahistory.org/writa ... 3.1446.jpg

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Post by Jim Bewley » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:42 am

The fading of the OD is an interesting point. Back in the 60's, nobody wanted to get a new set of fatigues, because it made you look like a newbie. The faded looking ones showed you had been around. There were many two year draftees back then and when someone would ETS, they would sell their old fatigues. :D

Jim

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Post by mnhorse » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Jim Bewley wrote:The fading of the OD is an interesting point. Back in the 60's, nobody wanted to get a new set of fatigues, because it made you look like a newbie. The faded looking ones showed you had been around. There were many two year draftees back then and when someone would ETS, they would sell their old fatigues. :D

Jim
During my Army stint (1964-1967), I only bought one set of new fatiques, but then again I was a "clerk" and only wore out the seat of my pants (or so the story goes).
I really liked the fit of the PX fatiques better than the QM ones, I could get trowsers with a bit more length in the inseam. Taller guys had a rough time making pant meet boot.
Here I thought it was the newbie hair-cuts that was the give away!
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Post by Kurt Hughes » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:03 pm

I have finally had a some spare time to add some more uniforms, unfortunately the light started fading before I could finish.
The next is an Officers 1907 coat with stand and fall collar and 13th cavalry insignia, shown with 1902 cap, Springfield produced 1902 Officers sabre, garrison belt and sabre attachment.
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Post by Kurt Hughes » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:11 pm

1904 US Army Sweater and 1902 campaign hat. Also shown Mills cartridge belt and Model 1909 Rock Island Arsenal holster for .45 M1909 revolver.
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Kurt Hughes
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Post by Kurt Hughes » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:33 pm

1910 coat with 13th cavalry insignia, note pointed cuffs and four collar discs with bellow pockets. Also shown is the experimental holster with swivel hanger circa 1910 made at Rock Island Arsenal for the m1909 .45 revolver and model 1909 cavalry cartridge belt, also shown is the experimental bandoleer circa 1911, note pockets for .30 cartridges and three pockets for .45 M1911 magazines. I have not been showing the back of uniforms but thought it might be of interest showing the reverse of the bandoleer for the Krag bayonet that was used during trials of the experimental equipment. This is similar to a photo I have of a 11th cavalry trooper shown with the experimental equipment and armed with a revolver but with similar bandoleer.
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Post by Kurt Hughes » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:38 pm

Something for me that is iconic with troops serving on the border, the 1911 Sweater, displayed with 1911 campaign hat and Wilson goggles. Also shown Models 1912 pistol holster, bandoleer and .30 cartridge belt.
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Last edited by Kurt Hughes on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Kurt Hughes » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:15 pm

Lastly for now, a private purchase sweater with 1911 campaign hat, Officers model 1912 garrison belt with leather magazine pocket and holster for M1911 .45 pistol.
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Post by Brian P. » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:40 pm

Oh so cool! Thanks Kurt!

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Post by Jim Bewley » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:05 pm

Kurt, most of the officer's breeches seem to have a three button flap at the bottom of the leg laces, but not the EM. Any idea why?

Jim

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Post by Pat Holscher » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:19 am

Kurt Hughes wrote:I have finally had a some spare time to add some more uniforms, unfortunately the light started fading before I could finish.
The next is an Officers 1907 coat with stand and fall collar and 13th cavalry insignia, shown with 1902 cap, Springfield produced 1902 Officers sabre, garrison belt and sabre attachment.
1a.jpg
Wow, what fantastic examples!
Pat

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Post by Pat Holscher » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:21 am

Kurt Hughes wrote:1910 coat with 13th cavalry insignia, note pointed cuffs and four collar discs with bellow pockets. Also shown is the experimental holster with swivel hanger circa 1910 made at Rock Island Arsenal for the m1909 .45 revolver and model 1909 cavalry cartridge belt, also shown is the experimental bandoleer circa 1911, note pockets for .30 cartridges and three pockets for .45 M1911 magazines. I have not been showing the back of uniforms but thought it might be of interest showing the reverse of the bandoleer for the Krag bayonet that was used during trials of the experimental equipment. This is similar to a photo I have of a 11th cavalry trooper shown with the experimental equipment and armed with a revolver but with similar bandoleer.
2a.jpg
3a.jpg
Neat stuff. I don't think I've seen a photo of the bandoleer before.
Pat

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Post by Pat Holscher » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:22 am

Kurt Hughes wrote:Lastly for now, a private purchase sweater with 1911 campaign hat, Officers model 1912 garrison belt with leather magazine pocket and holster for M1911 .45 pistol.
aa.jpg
Again, great stuff. I'm amazed by the quality of these items. The sweater and campaign hat look brand new.

Is that campaign hat standard issue? The quality looks higher than the norm.
Pat

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Post by Trooper » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:19 am

Kurt,
As usual, simply superb :thumbup:
Love the 1910 examples, you never see them altogether :clap:
Dušan

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Post by Kurt Hughes » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:45 am

Thanks for all the kind comments, I like to see these uniforms together so I hoped others would the same, I do not have the space to have them all on display all the time, hence it is equally a treat for me.

Pat, with regards to the private purchase sweater it came out of an officers foot locker, he had sadly died I think of the Spanish Flu, a shame but his footlocker contents were sold individually, from memory everything was in great condition with little sign of any of the items being worn. The sweater is very similar to some examples being offered in military outfitter catalogues from the period. The campaign hat is an issue example, in fact it is just in great never worn condition, the leather of the sweatband looks new with no marks, I have had that hat for many year and interestingly it was purchased over here. I recall purchasing it because when the seller told me the price I said thanks and walked away, my friend with me at the time could not believe I had not bought it, turns out I misheard the vendor, I went straight back and paid my £10, ($15) :D

Yes examples of the bandoleer are few and far between, I have seen another in a book but I think it had the bayonet scabbard removed, you may recall I think we discussed the carrying of a bayonet many years ago on the forum, I think it was in a photo and although the grip of the bayonet could be seen over the shoulder of the trooper we were unable to see the whole scabbard, they sometimes show up in early photos of the m1912 equipment when it was being trialled, but those photos are almost as scarce.

Jim, the honest answer to your question is I do not know, I know that some circa 1899 officers trousers had buttons, but I have seen both laces and buttons during the pre WW1 years, but around WW1 they seem to be more prominent, I think post WW1 both enlisted and officers had buttons but that is an era I am unfamiliar with. I guess it could simply be down to preference and or the cut/style, similarly officers uniforms being sometimes of a finer cloth. Brian might be able to add more on the subject?

Kurt.

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Post by Jim Bewley » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:17 am

Thanks Kurt. I have seen either laces or buttons, but the need for both laces and buttons is interesting. I thought there might have been a reason, but it might just have been a style I guess.

Jim

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Post by Kurt Hughes » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:26 am

Sorry Jim, my wording, should have read either buttons or laces.
Kurt.

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Post by Jim Bewley » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:10 am

Kurt, I was asking about the use of "both". It seems that some officer's breeches did have laces AND a button flap below them. I was curious as to why. :thumbup:

Jim
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Post by Rick Throckmorton » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:09 am

Totally impressed, Kurt. I, too, am particularly impressed with the 1910 bandoleer with the bayonet scabbard. I have never seen an actual specimen, let alone a nice, clear photo. Excellent.
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Post by Kurt Hughes » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:12 am

Hi Dušan

Yes I think all that is needed is an experimental belt to accompany the bandoleer, coat and holster. Dušan and I co-own the experimental holster but this is the first time we have seen it on a uniform with the bandoleer. Scott Meadows in his book on US Holsters states there were twelve produced, I have another example but it has been altered in the past, existing examples they are seldom seen with the swivel hanger section. I would be interested in any additional information anyone may have on production figures, should any new information arisen since the publication of Meadows book. The flap of the holster can be buttoned up in the open position, there are two "US" stamps, one on the reverse of the flap in order for when the flap is buttoned in the open position the other for when the flap is closed, there is also an interesting unique metal eyelet for attaching the leg tie thong.
Kurt.

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