Picket Pin Carriers

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Pat Holscher
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:09 am

A thread on an ebay auction has inspired some discussion on these, and Kurt Hughes and George Clark have generously provided photos, which will be posted below.

Kurt's photo. M1912 Officers Saddle with picket pin carrier:

Image

Pat
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Pat Holscher
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:14 am

George's photos. M1912 picket pin carrier on saddle:

Image

Image

Image

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Pat Holscher
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:15 am

Very nice photos from both of you.

Kurt, is that a M1910 backpack below the saddle?

George, can you give us some details on those canvas saddlebags?

Pat
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Kurt Hughes
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:56 am

Hi Pat

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to post the pictures. The pack on the floor is the M1912 ration bags as shown in place in George's pictures.

George,
Great pictures, particulalry nice to see another special picket pin carrier and in good condition. Is that the carrier strap I see, if so I would love to see some pictures of it.

Kurt.
George Clark
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:28 pm

Pat,
Thanks again for posting the photos. The canvas bags in Kurts' and my pictures are the M1912 ration bags. They are show in their "Saddlebag" configuration. They were meant to carry two haversack rations and and one emergency ration. They could also be converted to a backpack for use on foot. The two halves of the ration bags could be laced together by means of a canvas strap seen on the left of the flap on the bag in my photo. On the body of the bag just below the flap is a series of eyelets. A leather thong was laced through the eyelets to further connect the bags. There are two canvas straps that connect the two bags when being used as saddlebags. These straps rest on the rear of the side bars of the saddle. When used as a backpack these straps cleverly convert to a pair of suspenders with hooks that attach to the web rifle belt in the same way as the M1906 suspenders do. When the '12 equipment was dropped, the canvas ration bags were carried over to be used on the M1916 experimental service saddle. These bags must have been produced in great numbers. They are probably the most common of any of the '12 equipment still around.
Kurt, yes that is a carrier strap in my photos. Unfortunately it is a reproduction made to specs by a friend.
George.
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Pat Holscher
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:45 pm

Thanks for the added detail on the M1912 ration bag. Very interesting.

Pat
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Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:19 am

I will have to get a pic or two of a short case I saw in the Buffalo Cavalry Assoc. display case Im thinking it may be an experamental case because of its design . BTW nice pics another item id like to make but I never saw one to copy .

Tom Smith
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Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:07 pm

Photos courtesy of Tom Smith:

Image

Image

My apologies for being slow to getting around to post these ones. Tom indicates that:

<blockquote id=''quote''><font size=''1'' face=''Verdana, Arial, Helvetica'' id=''quote''>quote:<hr height=''1'' noshade id=''quote''>
Pat this one is in the buffalo Cav Association it is in a case the is equipments used by Troop I in 1912-16 era I plan to get a good look next time so I can reproduce it as a new option.
<hr height=''1'' noshade id=''quote''></font id=''quote''></blockquote id=''quote''>

Pat
Tom Smith Φ
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Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:05 pm

Pat not at all many thanks for posting I gotta learn to do that so as not to be a burden to freinds again thanks

Tom Smith
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Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:37 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tom Smith</i>
<br />Pat not at all many thanks for posting I gotta learn to do that so as not to be a burden to freinds again thanks

Tom Smith
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tom, when you figure that out please write a dissertation on the subject. Every few months or so I try again but the best I've been able to produce so far is a blue question mark. Other folks seem to pick it right up.

Humbly, Sandy
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Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:21 am

George and Kurt are to be commended for the commitment necessary to assemble these two saddles in such fine condition and complete configuration. Both of these saddles, along with the various accessories, represent a lot of dedicated searching. Congratulations to you both. Best, Ken
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Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:06 pm

Ken, Thanks for the kind words. I figure that the M1912 equipment I've managed to gather has taken about 22 years. Sometimes a few years between find and sometimes a few days. I tell the story of going to the Allentown gun show about 18 years ago and finding not only the '12 Patton saber hanger but also the '12 leather shovel cover on the same day about five tables apart. Also at a local show about 15 years ago I picked up my '12 special picket pin carrier. It was on a table with completely unrelated items,reloading tools and the like. I bargained for a while and bought it at an incredible price. As I walked away from the table I heard the dealer say to his partner with a smile on his face, "Well we finally got rid of it." Needless to say I was smiling too. In both cases it came down to being in the right place at the right time.
Best George.
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Kurt Hughes
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Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:53 pm

Ken,
Thank you also for the kind words, they are much appreciated from such a respected person, you for one certainly understand the work involved. I was collecting a few years before the days of the internet which has perhaps made things slightly easier, but I take my hat off to people such as yourself, Rick and Dušan who were doing it long before me, without some of the superb references or resuorces available to collectors today.

George,
I admire your M1912 collection and can perfectly understand it taking nearly 22 years to build.

Tom,
Thanks for the pictures.
What an interesting item, you did start me thinking, I thought I had seen an odd picket pin cover once before, on searching it was a drawing of a slightly different picket pin to the standard M1912 carrier, nothing like this.
I do not recognise this as part of the M1912 equipments nor the earlier 1910/11 experimental equipments.
It does appear to have a similar buckle to that used on some parts of the M1912 equipment. Is the work of RIA quality, does it appear purpose made or perhaps it has been altered from something else, I assume it is not marked in anyway?


Happy New Year to all!

Kurt.
Tom Smith Φ
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Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:59 am

Kurt, I am still waiting to get it out of the display case to get good pics and examine it fully . the case lock at this time is the problem as none of the keys will open it we are trying to solve that problem and I will post all I find at that time . and Happy New Year to all as well !!

Tom Smith
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