Putting the Punitive Expedition into Perspective

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Pat Holscher
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The recent Punitive Era threads here, reading a raging debate going on upon the Ukans W.W.I list, and a History Channel series on the Presidents leads me to post this thread.

I wonder if the Punitive Expedition Era, or rather the troubles with Mexico from 1910 to 1920 receive their proper due? I don't think so.

The whole topic is usually treated as sort of a footnote to W.W.I. About all the mention you ever see of it, in most period histories, is to note that the Punitive Expedition occurred before W.W.I, but that the troops were withdrawn prior to W.W.I. Then the histories are off and rolling on W.W.I. A more in depth history might note that the Army learned some of its weaknesses in the PE, and that Pershing rose to prominence during it.

But, more typically, they are like the History Channel item I mentioned. That had Wilson's "singular crisis" being W.W.I.

In looking at it, it seems to me that, following Modero's murder, Mexico preoccupied Wilson to an enormous extent at first. No doubt Europe was also a concern, but Mexico, it seems to me, was more of one, or at least equally one. Wilson nearly committed the US to war with Mexico at least three time, and lead the Army to believe war was inevitable on several occasions. An act which could have been regarded as an act of war against both Mexico and Germany was nearly committed when Wilson intended to have a German registered ship stopped on the high seas in order to keep it from delivering arms to Huerta's regime. That didn't occur, but the US did effectively blockade Mexican ports, which is normally regarded as a belligerent act.

In the East Coast it seems that the troubles with Mexico did not become as much of a story of public interest as in the West, but that doesn't mean the Administration was not concerned and reacting to it. The war in Europe only seems to have become the sole concern, and therefore the undisputedly predominant one, several months before US entry into the war.

Put in that context, while W.W.I undoubtedly takes center stage due to the huge effort it entailed, I wonder if the troubles with Mexico do not deserve quite a bit more attention than they receive. This isn't to lesson the importance of W.W.I, but to point out that the US faced more than one crisis during this period of time, and the first one is only minor, if it was minor, in hindsight.

Pat
Pat Holscher
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To add, while I generally dislike counterfactuals, I have to wonder what would have occurred had Wilson gone so far as to commit the US to full scale war with Mexico. It did nearly occur.

That the US would have won such a war cannot be doubted, but it might not have been all that clean. Moreover, I have to wonder if the US would have committed to a second war in Europe immediately thereafter? It's questionable. Or, depending upon timing, perhaps the war would have been one of the odd sideshows to W.W.I, like the Japanese war in the Pacific, or the war in Africa and the Middle East.

Anyhow, this is not to debate a counterfactual, but only to point out that the troubles with Mexico may be regarded as more serious than they are sometimes treated as having been.

Pat
Couvi
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Pat,<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pat Holscher</i>
<br />To add, while I generally dislike counterfactuals, I have to wonder what would have occurred had Wilson gone so far as to commit the US to full scale war with Mexico. It did nearly occur.

That the US would have won such a war cannot be doubted, but it might not have been all that clean. Moreover, I have to wonder if the US would have committed to a second war in Europe immediately thereafter? It's questionable. Or, depending upon timing, perhaps the war would have been one of the odd sideshows to W.W.I, like the Japanese war in the Pacific, or the war in Africa and the Middle East.

Anyhow, this is not to debate a counterfactual, but only to point out that the troubles with Mexico may be regarded as more serious than they are sometimes treated as having been.

Pat
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">The Japanese had tentacles in Mexico early on. GEN Mondragon of Mexico fortified the West Coast of the country, but not the East coast. Many thought that he had lost touch with reality, when in actuality he was preventing Japanese aggression against the United States. The Japanese had asked for free passage through Mexico to attack the United States.

Germany was keeping Mexico stirred up to cause problems for the United States. The intention was to keep the US focused on problems in Mexico and to keep American troops out of WWI. The was the distinct possibility of the United States fighting a proxy war in Mexico against Japan or Germany from early in the 1910’s through 1940.

Regardless of the intention, the Punitive Expedition turned out to be one very big live-fire exercise. The training, planning and toughening that occurred during the PE served us well in WWI. It also served as a training ground for the next generation of leaders in WWII.

Couvi

<i>"Cavalier san Cheval"</i>
Philip S
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Below are two cartoon postcards from Camp Stewart, El Paso, TX by Lamoree, 1st Penna. Cavalry:

Image

Image
Pat Holscher
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<blockquote id=''quote''><font size=''1'' face=''Verdana, Arial, Helvetica'' id=''quote''>quote:<hr height=''1'' noshade id=''quote''><i>Originally posted by Philip S</i>
<br />Below are two cartoon postcards from Camp Stewart, El Paso, TX by Lamoree, 1st Penna. Cavalry:

Image
<hr height=''1'' noshade id=''quote''></blockquote id=''quote''></font id=''quote''>

Hmmm, most camps I've seen tended to work the other way around. . .

<blockquote id=''quote''><font size=''1'' face=''Verdana, Arial, Helvetica'' id=''quote''>quote:<hr height=''1'' noshade id=''quote''><i>Originally posted by Philip S</i>
<br />Image
<hr height=''1'' noshade id=''quote''></blockquote id=''quote''></font id=''quote''>

I'm not quite sure what to make of that one. ..

Pat
Pat Holscher
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Bumped up in light of the centenary of the commencement of the Punitive Expedition on March 9.
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