Bren packsaddlery

[Tom Ready]

In service they would have been blancoed the standard shade of green (the one 45rd pouch I have has traces) for UK and one would assume whatever was standard for the Middle East for 1st Cavalry Division use (sand/khaki?)

The A.C.I. was 845 of 1944 and the basic pouches were introduced offially in List of Changes B 9033 of Feb 1944 along with the original pieces (long after their actual introduction). Info from my webbing guru Rog Dennis who tells me it seams they intentionally made more of one hand than the other.

The LoC specifies "For mounted personnel armed with Sten gun"

ATB

Tom

[Pat Holscher]

Clive Law sent these photos (a month ago, I'm a bit behind in photos), and send the following message:

Further to the ongoing thread on "Bren Saddlery" on the UP Forum. The attached photos have been passed to me for possible ID. The Bren mags are a tight fit and I don't think that it is Bren related. Ed Storey has seen these and thinks maybe the Vickers-Berthier MG. Any thoughts?

[Pat Holscher]

Tom is having some trouble logging in, but sends this word:

The pouches shown are standard Madsen packsaddlery ones, the mags are longer and slightly less curved. They are quite common in the UK.

[Pat Holscher]

Tom is having some trouble logging in, but sends this word:

The pouches shown are standard Madsen packsaddlery ones, the mags are longer and slightly less curved. They are quite common in the UK.

It is interesting how often Madsen material shows up in this context, ie., being mistaken for Bren items. It probably isn't surprising, given the WWII use of the Bren.

[Pat Holscher]

Courtesy of Tom Ready, more to follow:



Pat

This likely answers my question, but was it the case that a saddle of this type was specialized for the Bren equipment? That is, this particular pack saddle could only be used for the Bren equipment?

[Pat Holscher]

I think this thread, and Tom's material, answers my questions on how UP pack saddles work, but I'm still very curious. Any additional information on them would be appreciated.

[Pat Holscher]

Bump.

[tombear]

Gentlemen, please feast your eyes on this, found by a old mate of mine Kev Groom

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=6000

I would love to see a high definition version of this, especially stills of the saddlery. The Guns are actually ZBGs

ATB

Tom

[Larry Emrick]

Tom: That's an outstanding piece of film that answers one of my longstanding questions: How do you dismount with the weapon in the bucket and sticking up in the air. The answer is you don't: you take the weapon out with the right hand, transfer it to the left, then dismount. Thank you for posting it and your mate for finding it. Larry

[Larry Emrick]

PS: There's an unnerving bit in the full-screen version when the troopers are climbing the bank . The trooper carrying the spare barrel slips and sticks the end of the barrel in the dirt to lever himself up. Larry

[Pat Holscher]

Tom: That's an outstanding piece of film that answers one of my longstanding questions: How do you dismount with the weapon in the bucket and sticking up in the air. The answer is you don't: you take the weapon out with the right hand, transfer it to the left, then dismount. Thank you for posting it and your mate for finding it. Larry

That is a great clip.

[Pat Holscher]

PS: There's an unnerving bit in the full-screen version when the troopers are climbing the bank . The trooper carrying the spare barrel slips and sticks the end of the barrel in the dirt to lever himself up. Larry

Not only does the assistant gunner stick the barrel in the dirt, the gunner drops the gun in the mud.

[tombear]

Cheers!

I'd love to see stills of the ammo carrying led horse to see how the 8 (I think) 6 mag sized boxes fit on it.

I can't get sound on it but I bet the part where they drop the guns and barrels into the mud theres a bit saying "Never fear Tommy, just give the gun a shake and it will fire as well as when you have just cleaned it!!!" in a suitable plummy voice. In fact the early Brens were incredibly unreliable, partly through poor training and partly through some later rectified design flaws. It's reckoned that most of the guns lost in France had been thrown away long before Dunkirk as the frustrated gunners found abondoned SMLEs to shoot.

On the vague note of packsaddles, I've found the metal fittings for the P.A. ammunition saddle/frame we had sandblasted and repainted, and the perished leather straps and am sure I can find the wooden parts and large leather piece that joins them so can now get on with reasembling them. I do need a souce of the correct leather straps to sew on, I should be able to copy them from the dead orginals. It's a real shame as the whole saddle was unused, but had been left outside for several years. Perversely the card label survived!

ATB

Tom

[Pat Holscher]

Bump.

[Pat Holscher]

Courtesy of Tom:



Pat

Bump.