KRRC Mounted Officer

[Alexander]

As I remember there were plenty of photos of US Mounted Marines or even Mounted Sailors from Second Boer War. So it is only fair to add the photo of King Royal Rifles Corps officer to this company. To all who hasn’t familiar with Rifles history in late 19th century there’s need to say, that detachment of Rifles 3rd battalion were organized as Mounted Infantry during Anglo-Egyptian war of 1882 and successfully carried their mission throughout the war. Also they were mounted when participating in Suakin campaign of 1884 under Graham and a couple platoons of Rifles were assigned to Desert Column in unfortunate endeavor to help besieged Khartoum with General Gordon inside.

The saddle under him is Universal Pattern of 1902 doesn’t it? Since John Ruf’s personal site doesn't work I can’t no longer tell the difference what is sad.
The sword I believe to be 1897 Pattern British Infantry Officer's Sword with original hanger.
Also note the head rope – which is rifle-green and has a buckle just like one that was posted by one of the members in my summer thread about head ropes.


from here: http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyuniforms/britishinfantry/krrc1902b.htm


Alex.

[John M]

Alexander, not sure of the sword pattern he is wearing. But, as you say, I think it should be the 1897 pattern for infantry officers with a crown and bugle cartouche in the hilt.

I reckon the saddle might be a trooper's UP1890..probably MKIII. photo unfortunately not too clear. I think I can see the rear struts (omitted in the UP1902) and can possibly just see the rear spoon to the cantle.

Otherwise a yeomanry pattern saddle which is the type of saddle an officer at this time would be more likely be using.

If the photo dates from 1902 , the saddle is very unlikely to be a UP1902.

Sorry a bit vague,

John.

[Tom Muller]

Guys,

again I can't see a saddle pad or blanket. Was that typical for the time?

Tom

[John M]

I was also surprised not to see a numnha, pad or blanket.

[Alexander]

Alexander, not sure of the sword pattern he is wearing. But, as you say, I think it should be the 1897 pattern for infantry officers with a crown and bugle cartouche in the hilt.

I reckon the saddle might be a trooper's UP1890..probably MKIII. photo unfortunately not too clear. I think I can see the rear struts (omitted in the UP1902) and can possibly just see the rear spoon to the cantle.

Otherwise a yeomanry pattern saddle which is the type of saddle an officer at this time would be more likely be using.

If the photo dates from 1902 , the saddle is very unlikely to be a UP1902.

Sorry a bit vague,

John.

John,

Nothing to sorry about. You've made a good points here. Indeed the UP1902 cannot be presented in the photo taken in 1902. From my point I can't see clearly elevation on the end of the cantle which I used to see on the UPs.

To the sword - I'm pretty sure that sword might be 1897s but the perspective of the camera made it a bit curved.

And also check this picture please:

http://www.paoyeomanry.co.uk/Yeomanry/LeicsYeo/Horse%20Furniture/Review4.jpg

Doesn't it looks like saddle in the photo? The source is here: http://www.paoyeomanry.co.uk/LY12.htm


Alex.

[Alexander]

Guys,

again I can't see a saddle pad or blanket. Was that typical for the time?

Tom

I was also surprised not to see a numnha, pad or blanket.

Tom,

After you put it I'm also has noted this. Strange cause I've seen many photos without any blankets such as this.
For example:

http://www.paoyeomanry.co.uk/Yeomanry/LeicsYeo/Horse%20Furniture/AEBakerc1913.jpg

It's a British Yeomanry.


Alex.

[Tom Muller]

Alexander,

thanks for the nice photo. Seems strange to me, using a saddle without any additional padding. Was it just done for the photoshooting, or was it common practice? Maybe somebody can explain this practice.

Tom

[Alexander]

Alexander,

thanks for the nice photo. Seems strange to me, using a saddle without any additional padding. Was it just done for the photoshooting, or was it common practice? Maybe somebody can explain this practice.

Tom

Tom,

I'd wish to help you on this but I really doesn't know why is this so. As you can see on the other photos from the Yeomanry site many troopers sit without pads or blankets but on the other hand many of them rode their horse with blankets.
Even for photoshooting the practice seems strange on my part knowing an era's photo techniques.


Alex.

[Jim Bewley]

We have some friends from England who a long time horse people. They contend that if the saddle fits correctly, the pad only acts as a method to keep sweat off the saddle. The only thing they put under theirs is a very thin towel. I also remember reading, that early saddles were single flap and the inner one was added to protect from sweat. The pictures are British, so that could be a possible answer.

Jim

[John M]

The List of Changes entry for the Yeomanry pattern saddle .November 1901..does not refer to the use of a pad or numnha. Simply mentions..."The saddle blanket should be folded flat in four or six folds and worn under the saddle".

So, as with civilian saddles which have padded pannels as the Yeomanry saddle, I suppose a matter of choice as to whether some form of padding should be added. Protection of the leather could be a good reason. But also adds some cushioning to help prevent any soreness?.

[Jim Bewley]

Looking at the pictures in the link Alex provided, many of them have no saddle pad, so this must have been a common practice.

Jim

[Brian P.]

I've seen lots of pics illustrating this practice, especially of fox hunters. I believe that the padding on the saddle was deemed sufficient.

[Tom Muller]

Looking at a lot of these photorgraphs, this was quite a common practice I agree. I believe I read once that the Australian Stock Saddle was broken in without an additional pad or blanket, because the stuffing was seen to be sufficient and had to adapt to the horses back. Seems strange to me, but as an old Mac buff I'm not used to any padding on a saddle, so what the heck do I know.

Tom

[Jim Bewley]

Looking at a lot of these photorgraphs, this was quite a common practice I agree. I believe I read once that the Australian Stock Saddle was broken in without an additional pad or blanket, because the stuffing was seen to be sufficient and had to adapt to the horses back. Seems strange to me, but as an old Mac buff I'm not used to any padding on a saddle, so what the heck do I know.

Tom

Tom, I just remembered that I bought a new Stubben saddle a few years ago and they recommended riding in it without any pad for a week or so, to let the saddle form to the horse. After that they said that a light, thin pad should be used to protect the leather. That is what I did and there was no problem. I had completely forgotten about that, as I no longer have that saddle.

Ron Smith might know more about this, as he was a rep for Stubben at one time and knows a great deal about saddle fitting.

Jim

[Tom Muller]

Jim,

yeah Ron Smith should be able to give us some more info on this. Interesting that Stubben gave the same advice. If I'll find the time I'll check with some other German saddle manufacturers. I haven't heard from John Tremmeling for quite some time, I'm sure he could give us some additional info on the Yeomanry side.

Tom

[selewis]

Foxhunters. I believe these photos, sans sheets, are nods to fashion.

[Jim Bewley]

Foxhunters. I believe these photos, sans sheets, are nods to fashion.

I have ridden to hounds for many years and never seen a pad-less saddle in the field. A Fleece saddle pad (or thin pad with a fleece outer edge), shaped to follow the line of the saddle, with only the edge of the fleece showing is proper. It could look like no pad at first glance. Full square pads, as seen in the show ring, is not proper, but these days "proper" is becoming a thing of the past and you might well see anything.

Jim

[Alexander]

Gentlemen,

From what I’ve seen in all the photos I could make an assessment that both practices was quite common back then. If you look through this Yeomanry site you can see the photos of maneuvers where to our surprise there are no blankets under the saddle!

http://www.paoyeomanry.co.uk/Yeomanry/LeicsYeo/Manov/DerbyshireYeomanryCavalry2.jpg

I just remembered that I bought a new Stubben saddle a few years ago and they recommended riding in it without any pad for a week or so, to let the saddle form to the horse. After that they said that a light, thin pad should be used to protect the leather. That is what I did and there was no problem.

Jim,

Thanks for an interesting additions on the part of your experience.


Alex.

[Brian P.]

Foxhunters. I believe these photos, sans sheets, are nods to fashion.

I have ridden to hounds for many years and never seen a pad-less saddle in the field. A Fleece saddle pad (or thin pad with a fleece outer edge), shaped to follow the line of the saddle, with only the edge of the fleece showing is proper. It could look like no pad at first glance. Full square pads, as seen in the show ring, is not proper, but these days "proper" is becoming a thing of the past and you might well see anything.

Jim

I'm sorry, I should have modified my response. I was referring to 19TH CENTURY fox hunting images. (There are three within view of where I sit right now - all showing no saddle pads.) I also hunt and, yes, the current fashion is to use fleece pads. I still maintain that it was just the fashion of the time. Saddles were much more commonly custom fitted to horses back then, so the need for any extra padding was negligible. I sure can appreciate the value of a modern fleece pad to protect the saddle, though; so that may one reason for why we do things as we do, now.

[Jim Bewley]

Foxhunters. I'm sorry, I should have modified my response. I was referring to 19TH CENTURY fox hunting images. (There are three within view of where I sit right now - all showing no saddle pads.) I also hunt and, yes, the current fashion is to use fleece pads. I still maintain that it was just the fashion of the time. Saddles were much more commonly custom fitted to horses back then, so the need for any extra padding was negligible. I sure can appreciate the value of a modern fleece pad to protect the saddle, though; so that may one reason for why we do things as we do, now.

I completely agree Brian. I thought you were talking about current trends. You rarely see a pad, of any sort in the old hunting prints. Fashion was a big part of the older times. I read in a old book, that at one point, young men wore breeches skin tight, to impress the ladies and almost froze to death while out.

Jim